EP 132
Welcome fellow confidence crusaders, neuro nerds and success equalizers. This is your podcast, Real Confidence. I'm your host, Alyssa Dver, and I'll be sharing a bit of basic brain science, some surprising social secrets and a touch of tough love. Why? Because I believe confidence is everyone's fundamental right and choice. So let's get to it.
Alyssa Dver:
This is really a treat. I mean, they're always a treat my podcast for me personally anyway, but this is a treat for so many reasons, because Annet van Duinen, did I do that okay for Annette?
Annet van Duinen:
Yeah, yeah, that's fine. It's that's very difficult to pronounce.
Alyssa:
Well, it's difficult for Americans, of course, I just got back from Amsterdam, so I really butcher the language they are and apologize but, but, big but, but you and I have known each other for many years, and because I was going to Amsterdam, I reached out to you, only to find out that you're no longer there, and you told me about your incredible journey transformation. I don't even know what to call renaissance that we're going to talk about here, so I am just so happy that we've reconnected and that you're here to talk to me and the listeners about the last few years and what you gone through and come out beaming, literally.
Annet van Duinen:
Yeah, it's great to be here. Thank you for having me. And it's, it's, it has been a really, really amazing journey from the last five years. I mean, I've been a coach for a long time, but the last five years, basically since I started with the confidence training from your institute, that was like a major shift for me. So you kind of got it started.
Alyssa:
So nice to hear. You know, when we met, you did come through the certification program at American Confidence Institute. And, you know, I would have described you as an introvert, quiet and thoughtful and a wonderful coach. So is that, was I far off five years ago? Was that fair?
Annet van Duinen:
No, you're actually that's pretty accurate indeed. I mean, I've always struggled a little bit with the introvert label, because I'm also very happy to extrovert as a as a verb, right to be out there and do stuff. But I think that it also connected with my how do I feel about myself? And I think the confidence that I gained over the years was actually also giving me permission to be more myself and to be more the extroverted, wild, sensitive, as I call it these days. And so that's the, that's the journey, right, of embracing who you are.
Alyssa:
I love it. So, so you go through this course, and it was kind of a, I don't know if it was a happy accident, but you got through the course. And so after that, Tell Tell us. Tell me what happened, like, How did all this manifest, and what's, you know, the punch line at the end is such a wonderful story. So tell me what, tell me a little bit about the journey.
Annet van Duinen:
Wow, yeah, where to start with that? Right? Well, I guess with the confidence training it that shifted my perspective of how you look at yourself, like, how can you become more confident? Basically, because I was always a little bit like you said, I came across introverted. I I was more a person who stayed more at the end of the at the edge of the building, and then the conversations, and just be more at the side of things. And once I became a coach, that was like, okay, this is I love doing this. This is really my happy spot, but now I need to really step into it and speak up, right? And that's been a journey. And one of the things that I learned then is that the confidence training that made a huge difference, as in really understanding, like, how can I embrace who I am, and what tools are there for that? And so that helped me get started on that path, and that slowly grew over the years to a point that I realized I need to make changes for myself. In my marriage, I was not happy. I had to make the really hard decision of leaving. And so after that, when I started to build my life again as a one person like this is me. This is I'm embracing everything about myself. I met this guy who also was on the path of self discovery, mostly about highly sensitive, about being highly sensitive, and my discovery was more about high sensation seeking, how that intertwines with being highly sensitive, and so we found each other, and from that moment, we've been on this really incredible journey of discovering what it means to be a highly sensitive person, but also a high sensation seeker, and how those two intertwine with each other. And we came to the point of realizing there it's not just the two traits standing beside each other. It's like you become a whole new you have a whole new trait. And that's what we called the wild sensitive, because there's nothing out there like that. So it's that's basically the start of the journey, and we're still on it. We're still discovering how you can embrace that more and how you can really understand that trait in yourself.
Alyssa:
Wow. So I mentioned that you were in Amsterdam, and you have now relocated a few times so, and this new person in your life is not Dutch.
Annet van Duinen:
They are, no, he's, he's a half American, half Canadian, and he was living in Mexico at the time when I met him. And so in the beginning, I was like, okay, that's my wild, sensitive, right? I just jumped on the plane, like, I have to meet this person halfway across the world. I mean, I got to know him through by my own podcast, I interviewed him, and so that's how we got to know each other. And we just kept talking for like days, hours, months, and that's how we like we have to meet, we have to be in person, and that we hit it off so well that we are half a year later. We were together, and we haven't been apart since.
Alyssa:
And you are now where?
Annet van Duinen:
We are now in Baja, California and Mexico. So it's awesome to be here, nice and warm.
Alyssa:
Yeah, I was gonna say I'm looking at you with no sleeves, and I'm here in a turtleneck, right, which is kind of like when it was in Amsterdam. Was same weather in Boston. So you know what I find so refreshing? First of all, you know, I always get the benefit of seeing my guests and my listeners don’t. You are literally beaming. You are like a different visual than when I last saw you in so many ways. So you're clearly, I mean, visually, I can see it. You're just happier.
Annet van Duinen:
Oh, very true. Very true. I think,
Alyssa:
You know, the thing that always I wonder about is what happened, and not the specific thing you don't have to share that if you don't want to. But I think people get to a place where they finally say, enough. But in many cases, people suppress that. What? What made you say, this is enough and I'm going to change because that that was a big deal?
Annet van Duinen:
Yes? Yeah, it was, um, I guess the deep down you you always know, right, that there's things in your life that you're not happy with, that you're like, This is something I struggle with, and it could be all kinds of things. And in my case, it was more like not totally embracing who I am who and I guess that's rooted in as a highly sensitive person, you feel different most of the time. There's like a it's a research trait. It's like in 30% of the population, and it mostly describes like depth of processing is what we have, the easily overstimulated emotional empathy and more emotional reactiveness, but also the sensitivity to subtleties. And so those are the four basic descriptions of what a highly sensitive person is. And if you're a highly sensitive person, you are not always accepted in the world out there, because you're different, right quotation marks, and because you just you feel you work differently, you operate differently. And if you don't accept that about yourself, you struggle with it. It's like you struggle with your own identity. And what I came to realize is that if you embrace your identity more, then you also become more confident in yourself. You become more accepting, like this is who I am, and then you can move forward more easily. And so I've been working on the highly, high sensation, the high sensitivity part, for a long time, but when I came together with. I partnered with Randy, then I finally understood also the high sensation seeking part of it, and how much that influences me as a person. And when you put those things together, then it's like finally that it clicked like, ah, that's what makes me different, right? Because the feeling different is what always keeps you from accepting yourself because you should be how everyone else wants you to be, right?
Alyssa:
That's right, you know, I'm never surprised anymore on how much we can continue to learn about ourselves. So like after you and I initially spoke, I did a little digging on some of these terms too, because they were new to me. And I can tell you where I was, I can tell you how I felt, but I remember my mom saying to me, I probably, I think I was probably about 15, and she said, you're too sensitive. And it really was, you know, you gotta stop it. You're too sensitive, and it was really a berating that I took very hard. I mean, I remember it like 50 plus years later, and when I was doing the research for you, I was like, wait a minute, that is who I am. And I am an adventure seeker. Anyone knows me knows that clearly, you know. So I was like, wow. So why aren't more people talking about this? This is not I was like, holy cow, that's me too, right? Is this, like, really new, or is you just like, why don't we know this already?
Annet van Duinen:
The person who who labeled a high sensitive person is Dr Elaine Aaron. She's a psychotherapist, and she did that in 1996 already, long time ago. But I think the label of being too sensitive is not something that people easily embrace, right? So it's like, no, I'm not like that. I'm I can be a little bit People tell me I'm sensitive, but that seems to be the problem, right? And so from my perspective, sensitivity in itself, the basic underlying trait of it is that you're, you're a deeper processing person. You look at things and you think about all the consequences and all the different aspects of that situation, and it's actually proven with neuroscience, like with MRIs, how the brain of an HSP works differently. So it's it's a real trait, and yeah, when you're always told you're too sensitive, then that's just not something you're willing to embrace. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's talked about more and more, so that's a good thing, but we still need to get it more out there.
Alyssa:
Yeah, well, here we are. But you know, you said it's a trait, I think it's a superpower. It's kind of like X-ray vision, in my opinion, that I will not only perceive and see things and be able to analyze, people have said to me in the past too, you know, you you think too quickly, yeah, because I'm 10 steps ahead before they're catching up. And that was also said to me as a negative. And I'm like, wait a minute, it's not a bad thing. It's saving you all that ever but you know, I think what's also interesting is the intertwining that you've done with Adventure seeking. So how are they related or not, or they just happen to be two traits that, once in a while, get together?
Annet van Duinen:
Yeah, well, I believe it's indeed the latter, that it's two traits just happen to be in one person, and that combination makes you completely different, because the highly sensitive person is like observing and they pause before acting right. And so the high sensation seeker, which is discovered long before even the highly sensitive person, Dr. Marvin Zuckerman, and he described the high sensation seeker as the person who has boredom, susceptibility, disinhibition, novelty and Adventure seeking, and then the thrill and adventure part. And so the struggle with the high, with the HSS person, is that it's often related to people who are really adventurous. They skydive, they go diving with sharks, all these like really adventurous things. But even the boredom susceptibility in itself, that's also part of it. And so that makes you if you combine that with being a highly sensitive person, it's like one foot on the gas and the other on the brake. It's feels very conflicting to a lot of people. And when what we discovered Randy and I is that if you really learn to integrate the two, that it just the one feeds the other, highly sensitive people tend to be. Really more on the side, and just observing the world. And the high sensation seeker is the part that puts you out there. We're the people shouting on our soapbox like, This is wrong. This should be changed, or teaching other people about stuff like that, just like you do with the confidence Institute, right? And so all these things, it's like, that's the combination of the two. Gives you, in my opinion, a really strong trait that is really wonderful, and it makes you take action, like, go out there and explore the world with your depth of processing.
Alyssa:
Yeah. I mean, I'm going check, check, check. I mean, I'm not skydiving anytime soon, although I've thought about it. But, you know, like even just going to Europe last week, right on my own, just going doing my thing. We had a it was from my other business, the ERG Leadership Alliance, which is also very parallel to everything you've said. And I made friends everywhere. Did anything and everything that I could and, you know, just absorbed it all. I'm happy walking around looking and observing and watching and doing too, like, I don't have to necessarily do something adventurous to be adventure some, right? Absolutely. So I love this. I love it. Love it, love it. Personally, I'm sure there's people who are listening that may not be able to relate, but I'm sure there's people that are like, Oh, this is me too. So here's what we're going to do. I'm going to take a really quick break, because I want to come back and I want to talk about, okay, somebody is saying to themselves, this is me. I want you to come back and maybe give some tips or some observations of how to really utilize this. Maybe change something in their lives, maybe not necessarily leave their marriage and move another country, but something that they should be doing. Because you're a coach, you do this all day, every day, to help people embrace this beautiful superpower. And we'll do that when we come back from the break. Is that that cool? All right, we'll be right back.
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Alyssa:
Oh, I've got goosebumps on my goosebumps and that I'm just like, so excited to see you to talk about this. This is just so much fun, and I'm so grateful for our reconnection. So you know somebody who's listening and they're having the same kind of visceral reaction going, Oh, that's me. That's me. What are your best words of wisdom for them that they can embrace this?
Annet van Duinen:
Yeah, well, I think that the most important thing is realize and recognize yourself in that and understand deeply that your wiring isn't wrong, right? I mean, a lot of people get told like You're too sensitive or you're just jumping from one thing too much, right? The a lot of high sensation seekers, they do not stick with one job for long. They just hop from job to job, or have two companies or two companies, or all kinds of things like that, right? Getting bored with the same restaurant all the time, over and over, you don't like that. You don't enjoy that. And so really understanding that that part of you is okay. It's just your wiring isn't wrong. It's a hidden strength. Because that, we just wrote a book about the boredom susceptibility part as well, and really explored in depth, like, how does that show up in life? Because boredom susceptibility is one of those traits, right? That is part of the high sensation seeker. And we discovered that it's, it's a drive to explore new things so, and it's not like, oh, I'm bored with the daily stuff, but it goes much deeper. You can really become physically that you're like, feeling bad when that happens. And it's, it's a drive to go and do new things. So when you really start to recognize those, those traits in yourself, you become you, you accept it, and then you can start using it more. So that would be my first like, really explore your traits, like, understand how you are functioning, what thrives, how you thrive, and then you can make steps to build to get to the point that you're having a better aligned life with who you are.
Alyssa:
Yeah, and so, you know, describe, if you will, the change in in you, like you all. You embrace this. You're here now. You're doing this work. You're aligned. Like, how has it changed your life, physically, emotionally in some just to describe the difference for people, because I'm looking at you, and I can't even express the difference in what I see, so I can imagine how much is inside and how much you feel.
Yeah, well, I guess the biggest difference in how I feel personally when I embrace my two traits into the one, wild sensitive, is freedom. And the best moment to describe that is not long after we got together, Randy and I, we, we went on this motorbike trip from Las Vegas to Fairbanks, Alaska, and it was just like we both had, like, we want to do this. We want to do something crazy together and explore our relationship also. And so it was a long journey we had, like this little tent, and we slept in the wild. And we camped out all over the US on our way up to Alaska. And when we finally got to the border between the Yukon and Alaska, we were standing there next to that sign, you know, the Welcome to Alaska that you have everywhere. And I was looking at that sign, and I was like, oh my god, I made it here. I did this. And it wasn't just the accomplishment of arriving at that place, but it was so much more like embracing who I truly am. Like, yes, I do crazy stuff, and yes, I want to do wild things. Here I am Annet van Duinen: standing at the border of Alaska, and that was like a really big moment, like the freedom that you embrace, that who are you? What do you want to do? That was like to me the most, yeah, very, very important moment.
Alyssa:
I love it. So, yeah, you I'm so, you know, another thing my mother often said to me is, you know, proud is selfish. If you say that you somebody, you're proud, it's selfish because you take credit for it. I said, But you know, I'm going to, I'm going to use the word here very deliberately. I'm so proud of you because you have really shown that with not just commitment, but, you know, energy and motivation to really become a beautiful butterfly in the end, that is now helping other people become beautiful butterflies too. And there's nothing greater in the world than doing that for other people. So thank you for allowing me to help you. Thank you for helping other people, people who want to get your help directly. How do they find you? What's the best way to look up your stuff, including me, I want to read everything that you published.
Annet van Duinen:
Well, awesome. Thank you so much. Well, the easiest way to reach out to me would be through my website, thewildsensitive.com and there's also the book out there, The Wild Sensitive Unlocking the Power of the High Sensation, Highly Sensitive, so there's a lot of information in there as well.
Alyssa:
Terrific. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so glad we have reconnected. Thank you for being here today, and I'm not going to let you out on my site for nearly as long as we did in the past, just warning you.
Annet van Duinen:
Oh, thanks so much, Alyssa, and thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I really enjoyed it.
Alyssa:
Before we totally wrap up, I want to let you know that full transcripts and show notes for this and other real confidence episodes can be found on www.AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com/podcast. I also want to remind you once again, that the best way to get confidence is to give it to others, and you can do it just by liking and sharing this episode on your preferred podcast and social media channels. You can even give me some confidence by noting topics you'd like me to consider for the future. So for now. This is Alyssa Dver. Thank you for helping to bring more confidence to the world.
Master editing done by Ben Weinstein with original music performed and composed by Jeff Mitchell. Real confidence is a production of American Confidence Institute, All Rights Reserved.
