EP 113
Welcome fellow confidence crusaders, neuro nerds and success equalizers. This is your podcast, Real Confidence. I'm your host, Alyssa Dver, and I'll be sharing a bit of basic brain science, some surprising social secrets and a touch of tough love. Why? Because I believe confidence is everyone's fundamental right and choice. So let's get to it.
Alyssa:
Overthinking, come on, I do it all the time. I'm a confidence guru, and it's something I do. So I can't wait to get Betsy Holmbergt's take on. Is it good? Is it bad? What do we do with it? How do we make more productive? Betsy, welcome to today's podcast.
Betsy Holmberg:
It is so great to be here. Alyssa, you have such positive energy. I can't wait to dive into this topic. So why don't we, like, get some low down. What? What is overthinking?
Betsy Holmberg:
Okay, overthinking are all of those thoughts that absolutely disrupt your life. So whether it is 2am in the morning, or whether you're driving or whether you're hanging out with a group of people, but you're inside your head, and you're not really paying attention to anything going on around you that's overthinking.
Alyssa:
So not being present with things outside world. Really focus on what's happening inside. Yeah? Is it bad? Yes, why?
Betsy Holmberg:
Here's the deal. It was, it was not bad 100,000 years ago, and it is really not effective and adaptive for us now. So what the neuroscience is now showing is that this overthinking comes from a more primitive thought network that we didn't even know existed. It's called the default mode network, and it sits deeper in the brain, which means it evolved earlier than our primary thought network, which is called the central executive network. Now this sits on the very outside of the brain, which means it is the most sophisticated, the thing that has made us the society we are today. But this default mode network evolved in a time where the most important thing for a human was to stay in their clan, and so it is number one, the big ahas. This thing is automatic. So it talks to you rather than you directing it. And some people are like, That's ridiculous. This is me. Like, these are my insecurities, my feelings. This is all the stuff I'm worried about. But have you ever had a song that just keeps playing in your head and, like, you can't stop it?
This is automatic, like memories that just pop up out of nowhere, and you're like, why did that just happen? Because this network runs on its own, and it's like the stress system, so it's constantly monitoring the world, comparing you to everyone else, seeing what it needs for safety and and so it was great back then, when we had a clan of 150 people, but it was can absolutely drive us nuts nowadays, and this is the thing that is overthinking for us. So that is the big break I want you and all of your audience to get is like this voice is not you. It is a primitive, automatic thought network that is harping on you all the time, and you don't really have to listen to it anymore.
Alyssa:
Okay fellow neuro nerds, are we lucky that Betsy is in the house? What? So, you know, you just, there's so many questions floating through my head. So overthinking. When you said it, it's like this thing that's happening in the background trying to keep us safe. Is it the same? There's a couple nuances here. Is the same as rumination where, like, I do that. I think when I said, I do a lot of our thinking, there's something that like a puzzle or something that I'm trying to solve, or a new title for a podcast, or a new title for a book or something, and I ruminate because I want to get it right. Is that the same thing?
Betsy Holmberg:
Yes and no. So rumination is a great thing to bring up, because that is one of those key like gateways to depression and anxiety and everything else. So the more we ruminate, aka go over something over and over and over and over again, the more we lead into depression. And that's actually what they show in the neuroscience as well as fMRI studies of individuals with major depressive disorder and the major anxiety disorders have a very strong functionally like strong connected DMN and a weak central executive network. So their automatic thoughts are very strong and dominant, and then their Cen can't really get an word in edgewise, which is so interesting now the rumination you were talking about, like trying to get that book title right, there's another. Piece of this, which is the creativity side. And this is when people say, like, oh, I just had this idea that popped into my head and and it's creative, and it's different. Interestingly, that is also the DMM, but it connects to the CEN. It's the one time when the CEN and the DMN work together, yeah, yeah. And it's like the CEN pulls that one thought, like, Whoa. That was cool. That was a cool automatic thought. And they pull it out of the mire of your DMN, and then they play with it, and you focus on it, because CEN thoughts are those you choose. So if you're choosing to think and think and think on your book title. That's actually the CEN.
Alyssa:
Oh, thank goodness. I was like, I'm a candidate for real depression, because I think about stuff like that all the time. Alright, so, so that kind of rumination. Is there? A better word for it is, it's like brainstorming, right? Well, it's this tenacious need to fix, to to want to find and fix the perfect puzzle, whatever that might be. Sometimes it's like, you know, even here I'm confessing as as always, you know, maybe it's like, what's going to be the perfect outfit for that event or that day? And I'll be like, hmm, and it's a puzzle. But it's not like, I don't think, I don't think it's like a depressive obsession thing. It's more like I've got, I just got to figure this thing out. And it is a choice. It's always a choice that I go there.
Betsy Holmberg:
That sounds almost more like a hyper focus, like a solving hyper focus, that you are choosing that. And I think a really good rule of thumb everyone can use for this is that if you're having positive associations with that thought and whatever you're doing, then that's not the DMN. The DMN is a 100% fear based system. So if it were picking out an outfit, it would say, Well, what is everyone else wearing? Okay, now it's flowy dress season with jean jackets. I need to be in a flowy dress and jean jacket. Otherwise I'm not fitting in. And it's that cyclical, like, won't stop, but comparing you to everyone else and trying to get you to fit in kind of voice.
Alyssa:
Okay, that's a good differentiation. So let me throw another word that I'm like thinking. It's very in this meyer, which is inner critic.
Betsy Holmberg:
Yes, that is actually in the title. So, so I have a book coming out June 1. It's called unkind mind, and it is how to stop your inner critic for good. So that's exactly what it is. Alyssa.
Alyssa:
So we hear that a lot in the confidence Institute, you know, people in their inner critic, and they're always trying to battle it, quiet, it, whatever the word is, should we be, you know, stifling. That is there any you know. Again, bright side to the fact that your inner critic is trying to keep you safe, so ignoring her, him or they, I'm not sure. I'm not convinced it's in our best interest, but we certainly have to manage it correct?
Betsy Holmberg:
You know, it depends on you. So for I would honestly say the vast majority of people, the thoughts their DMN has are not helpful, and they're not actually protecting film like personal example, mine is freaked out about retirement and am I going to have enough money? Ever since I was in high school, I thought I'm going to be homeless and I'm going to be a bag lady. I mean it. That is where my DMN loves to go. And is that necessarily helpful? I remember thinking like, what does my DMN know about financial planning? Like, it's not helping me with this. And so this is one of the big realizations. Is forever in the field of psychology, we have battled these thoughts, or we've, like, tried to, you know, test them and poke at them and try to figure it out. But the reality is, this is just like another stress system, if you will. And so we actually have to let this go. It's also automatic, you can't help these thoughts, and you can't help the things that it says. And so the more we can recognize that it's the DMN, it's not me, and then not make meaning out of what it says, and then let them go, the better.
And there are many different ways people choose to do this. For example, one is just entering into your Cen so if you focus on something, anything, it could be this conversation, it could be the color of the sky, it could be a book. As long as you're focused, you are out of your default mode. You're out of the DMN. So just any sort of redirect you can do is great, but for other people, like, if you're really tired or if you're stressed, you're not going to be able to stop the DMN because it is so integrated into the stress system. And you know how, like, when you're stressed, digestion stops and reproduction stops, like you shut down those ulterior systems? Well, the CEN is one of them. So if you're stressed, you're stuck in your DMN, and that's the time when you just try to ignore it. I call it the Real Housewives of me. I see it in a little confessional, and it's like yabbering on about all the nasty stuff in my life, and I just try to ignore it like a TV in the background. Mm. And it can really help.
Alyssa:
Alright, well, here's the thing, I'm going to take the break now for our sponsors, because it's not that easy, my friend and I think you know that for a lot of people to just ignore it. So I want you to come back and give us some other tips that we can when we're lying in bed going, oh my god, or, you know, driving, and we realized we got someplace, and all we did was worry about some other thing that not pay attention to the road, all those kinds of scenarios that we can do something that stops that inner critic, that negative rumination from happening. So Betsy, get ready for that. We'll be right back. My friends,
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Alyssa:
all right. Betsy, I'm ready. You said, ignore the inner critic. Put her aside. Put him aside. Tell him to shut up, whatever you know. All right, okay, now talk to me for real. I because that may not work for everyone. I have a feeling it may not work for me. It's at those stressful times, particularly like you said, when I'm tired or otherwise just, you know, overwhelmed. What else can I do to keep her at bay?
Betsy Holmberg:
Few different things. So telling a friend can really help. And what you're doing is you're giving your DMN a clan experience. So you're engaging with someone else. And forever, we have used our clans and our friends and our family to to kind of gut check what the DMN is saying. So you say, you know, I'm feeling really insecure about going into this presentation, and then your coworker friend will be like, you've got this you've been working forever, like, you know, you're so good when you present. And it's having that checks and balances for the DMN that can be really helpful, and giving it that clan experience. That's one thing. Here's the deal. If you're really in the depths of it, then know that from a brain perspective, your DMN is like Arnold Schwarzenegger, and your CEN is really, really weak, you know? And it can't really help. And so, yeah, it may feel like I can't turn this off, and this is overwhelming my life, and that's times when medication can help. So SSRIs, the antidepressants, they actually reduce functional connectivity in the DMN, and they give you a little relief. And so that's part of why they help start to balance those systems and help people. And so I know that, you know people, some people still feel a stigma around this stuff, and that's where I'm hoping the brain science can help them see absolutely do not have a stigma around this. Because it's like a personal trainer going to therapy can help. That's another clan type of experience. So there are lots of different things we can do.
Alyssa:
Excellent, excellent. And, you know, I don't usually put a plug for it, but our coaching program that we do is actually built around everything you just said, where it's an interrupt to the whole, you know, rumination process of somebody not feeling confident about something, and say, Okay, what are you going to do about it? Right and not so abrupt. But you know, for what it's worth, I think coaching with the right people and the right methodology can be very great. I love all those suggestions. I think that your book is something that I can't wait to get my hands on. So if somebody else also who doesn't have a direct connect to you, like I do now, yay, neuro nerd, best friend forever. How does somebody reach you best and you know, get get some more information about you and from you.
Betsy Holmberg:
Yes, wonderful. Well, please feel free to follow me on Instagram. I'm not great at it. I'm not good at posting like just honestly, but feel free to DM me there. You'll be able to see what's going on, but you'll be able to connect with me for sure. Or my website, which is BetsyHolmberg.com Instagram is Betsy Holmberg as well. Yeah, and please do go out and check out the book. It's got a ton more information on this, and it's called unkind mind.
Alyssa:
Brilliant idea name. Next time I have a title issue, I think I'm calling you just so you know.
Betsy Holmberg:
It was the publisher that came up with it. It is so good. It is not me.
Alyssa:
It's awesome. It's wonderful. And I'm gonna grab a copy as soon as we hang up here, but for me and all the other folks that just got so much good information and hopefully a little bit better sleep going forward, thank you so much.
Betsy Holmberg:
You're so welcome. Great to be here.
Alyssa:
Before we totally. Wrap up, I want to let you know that full transcripts and show notes for this and other real confidence episodes can be found on www.AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com/podcast. I also want to remind you once again that the best way to get confidence is to give it to others, and you can do it just by liking and sharing this episode on your preferred podcast and social media channels. You can even give me some confidence by noting topics you'd like me to consider for the future. So for now, this is Alyssa Dver. Thank you for helping to bring more confidence to the world.
Master editing done by Ben Weinstein with original music performed and composed by Jeff Mitchell. Real Confidence is a production of American Confidence Institute. All rights reserved.
