EP 98
Welcome fellow confidence crusaders, neuro nerds and success equalizers. This is your podcast, Real Confidence. I'm your host, Alyssa Dver, and I'll be sharing a bit of basic brain science, some surprising social secrets and a touch of tough love. Why? Because I believe confidence is everyone's fundamental right and choice. So let's get to it.
Alyssa Dver:
I don't usually read the guest bios because we post them online. We talk about them through the pod, but I have to read Andre Toroā€™s bio for you, because not only is it amazing, it is just really entertaining. So Andrew, hang on for a second. I'm going to give people a sense of why I'm so excited to talk to you today. You are from a Venezuelan family, and you're a photographer, and your background, you say, is atypical. I'm not sure if it's atypical or just ridiculously interesting. You studied as an electrical engineer, and you have an MBA from MIT, but you're we're going to tell the story of what happened, and part of it is that you had a concussion. Part of it is you have a life awakening. You have all this corporate background, and so you really did change who you were, from a career woman perspective, in a very dramatic way. I love this part that you say you're a hugger, a dreamer, passionate soul, obsessed with human connection and emotive storytelling. So let's get into the storytelling. Thank you so much for being here. Talk to me like you started well, you grew up in Venezuela. Let's start there.
Andre Toro:
Yes, I grew up in Venezuela. 26 years lived there in Venezuela, you don't move out for college. So I actually went to college while living with my parents. I absolutely loved it. And I picked engineering. Back then, I was between being a doctor and being an engineer. I got admitted into both. And then I decided to go into engineering. And when I was picking my major in Venezuela, you get to pick a career from the get go, right? So it was like, what should I do? I picked electrical engineer, and the reason for that is because it was the hardest one. I was a nerd. I was kind of like Hermione in school, like raising my hand all the time, and I wanted a challenge. And why not, right? So I picked the most difficult college back home, the most difficult career to get in and to pursue, and that's how I ended up being an electrical engineer. It was super fun. Yes, it was fascinating. I was a math TA my entire career, the five years in engineering school, I taught the most complicated math, and I loved it. Life was good. Was I super passionate about electrical engineer? Probably not. I would say that in vocation my peers would, like, build, like, robots and controls and this and that and like, I wasn't as passionate to be doing that in my free time, but it just taught me how to think. And my dad always told me, engineering teaches you how to think, and that's basically what it did. It just gave me a framework. It gave me a method, and opened my mind to think differently. And I think that's what I took away from that experience.
Alyssa Dver:
Wow. So, so the fact that you can say you found it fun, math fun, and loved it. I was a math geek too, I guess, but I felt fell out of love with it very fast, but you pursued it career wise. And you then tell me what happened you became you were a TA, but then you graduated, and you started when you're working as a mathematician, an electric engineer?
Andre Toro:
So I graduated, super nerd, valedictorian of my class. My parents didn't know I was going to give this speech on graduation date, so that was super fun. And then after that, I went into consulting. So right after that, I decided to do management consulting. I wanted to put into action something a little bit different. So I kind of transitioned into business like early on, because I did not work in the field electric engineering field as much. And I did consulting for two years. And at that time for me, it was crystal clear that I wanted to go to MIT Sloan. My brother in law has tenure there. He came here in 91 and since I was like eight years old, I will sit, sit in his classes. So I grew up knowing I wanted to go to Sloan even before I knew I wanted to be an engineer. So my ultimate goal was to go to Sloan. What did I do beforehand? Was something in between so I could get to MIT.
So that was kind of like my obsession, like I wanted to go to MIT, and then at that time, I met my husband, and he's like, oh, by the way, I'm moving to the US in two weeks. I was like, Oh, where are you going to Boston? Oh, really, yes, I'm going to Babson. I start in a month, I was like, Oh, this could work. Like, I want to apply to MIT next year. Like, let's see what happens. And that's another whole podcast, but basically we started dating. We only lived in the same country for six weeks, and then he proposed, like four months in. I said, yes, we only saw each other like six weeks in the same country, and then we got married one year after we met, and I moved to the US with my new husband, with my new country, like I just jumped in and playing for my new adventure, and I loved it. I went to Sloan, and it was exactly what I was expecting all these super smart months at that time, I was not the smartest in the room. I started to be humble. I was like, oh my goodness. Like these people are incredible. And I learned so much. I fell in love with marketing. I took all the marketing classes.
Funny enough, I did not want to be an entrepreneur. Like it was never something in my bucket list. I didn't take any entrepreneurship classes whatsoever at MIT, whether my husband, who was in Boston, like he was the entrepreneur DNA. So it wasn't in my in my tracks or in my dreams to become a business owner ever. I wanted to be, like, CEO of Proctor and Gamble, that's what you want to be if you're Venezuelan, right? Like, that's a big corp back home, so I had, like, all these dreams to be a big name in the corp world, and that's where it started. So Microsoft gave me an internship. I loved it. I loved it so much, I took the offer on the spot for to come back full time. We moved to Seattle. I worked there for five years, and absolutely loved it. But life kind of, like, gave me the opportunity to reinvent myself, even at Microsoft. So I was in the big mothership corp, like working in the office business group, right? I had like, $300 millions in marketing budget, and I was, like, this big establishment, and suddenly they asked me if I wanted to jump ship to Microsoftstore.com that they were starting their online store to sell directly to consumers and compete with Best Buy and like all these stores. And it was a startup. No one believed it. Steve Ballmer didn't have any budget on it. And she's like, and they're like, okay, you're in the office business group. We need an office Category Manager. Do you want to jump ship?
I was like, I don't know what a Category Manager does, but absolutely. So I jumped ship into this startup within the mothership. And I was like, employee, I don't know. Number eight, we had no budget, like nothing. And then by the time that I left that team was like 150 people. So we grew that team magically. Like everything that I had learned from the mothership, I started to implement that. So it was my first startup, kind of like mindset, but still within the Microsoft environment, which was very safe.
Then I had two kids, it didn't make sense to raise them in Seattle, so close to Alaska and not family. So we said, it doesn't make any sense, let's move back to Boston. My twin sister, identical lives in Boston. My older sister also lives in Boston, so this is home. So we moved back and I joined Wayfair, and I was doing one of the verticals that I had learned in my super awesome Microsoft experience. And then one day, the VP of Talent booked coffee with me, and she's like, Andrew, you're a people's person. I was a yes, and you're an engineer. I was a sure, yes. Do you want to come and run talent acquisition for the company for engineering? And I will say I'm not in HR. I don't know what talent acquisition actually means, but yes, but it won't mean so I jumped ship again and had to redefine myself for the second time career wise, because I've never done this before. But I was like, yes, I'll take pieces and beats from here on there. And I loved it. It was probably my favorite corp job ever. They gave me a white canvas. They needed to hire like 40 engineers a month. We were hiring four that at the time, so it was, like, pretty drastic, and I loved that. It was the time of my life. And doing that job that I loved so much is when I had a concussion, basically. So that's the whole story, up until the hit in the head and running down the stairs in my house. But up until that moment, I was having the time of my life in corp.
Alyssa Dver:
Time of your life. You know, part of this is that you're just so open to these adventures that, you know, it sounds like you just were like, Yeah, I'll try something new. I'll learn something new. And, and I have to, like, just say that's awesome. So let's talk about this concussion. I mean, this story is just, it's fabulous. What I mean? Our Dun, dun, dun. What happened?
Andre Toro:
Yes, so since I was a rush mom, I didn't have time for the browser in the computer to expire. I was buying some tickets to Portugal. The browser was going to expire. I needed to get to my computer really fast, and I jumped and I gained height when jumping down the stairs, and I forgot there was a door at the bottom of the stairs. So when I gain height, I basically hit the door frame with my head bounced back to the back of the stairs and then forward. So I had three concussions in one. I wish I had vomited or going black, because then people would have taken me more seriously. But since I just stood up like thought it was okay, no one believed it had been a massive concussion. It's like, oh, and Andre itā€™s nothing, take the day off. Like, put eyes my doctor. Like, didn't do a big deal until, like, a month out, I was non functional. Like, the headaches were absolutely insane. I didn't even know, like, what was going on. I ended up going to the ER, they finally referred me to the neurologist and the guys like as of now, you're going to medical leave indefinitely. You have a massive concussion. I had to do vestibular therapy, executive therapy, cognitive therapy. I lost my ability to do math. I couldn't remember three numbers in a row. So it was, like, really, really, really bad.
My mom had to move with us from Venezuela because I couldn't tie my shoes or, like, back my children. My kids were little. They were at the time, three and five. So it was like, really, really bad. So I went to medical leave after having the time of my life and the job that I love so much, I suddenly found myself no screens. So I couldn't do books. I couldn't do TV, screen, phone, nothing, nothing. Literally, a black room. I started to listen to audiobooks that I had never done before, and I started meditating. That was the only thing that basically brought the headaches down. And then all these therapies took my life, because I had to go every single day in the beginning, and then four times a week, and then three times a week, and it took me, like, many months to kind of like recover and get to baseline. And through that time, it was an awakening, right? Because you start thinking, like, as a rush mom, when do you think? There's never time to think, what is it that you want to do with your life, like you're just in automatic auto pilot, just going through life, pushing through the days and at that time.
But the story I all like, I love photography, you must be saying, like, why is she a photographer? So I took photography classes while working full time in Microsoft, because I loved it when my oldest was born. This did this hire inside me of, like, just recent time and, like, get photos that no one was giving me, that the desire came. So I went for school, for it, and then I always joke with my husband, one day I'm going to be a photographer. But when, right, I was making so much money, I was managing a team, a team of 40 people. I was like, loving it. I was ambitious. Remember, I want to be CEO of something. So I was like, this is this is beautiful. But life gave me the opportunity to stop and think. And it was clear. I was like, You know what? It's now or never? Like, I'm just going to make drastic changes. I've always wanted to be a photographer.
My oldest was starting kindergarten at that time, and she was struggling through my concussion, and I never knew she was struggling so much she wasn't doing good in school, and I didn't understand it's kindergarten. And then my sister, who's a therapist, is like, have you asked her how she felt about the concussion? I was like, no, because we've been kind of like trying to put, like a, you know, like a happy face, like the life is beautiful around all of these. And then I asked her, and she started crying, and she's like, Mom, I thought you were gonna die. And it was like, oh my god, no, sweetie, of course, because I went from being super mom to super absent, like being laying in bed days at a time. So I was like, no, no, but I knew something got to change. She was in this big transition in life. I want to talk to the kindergarten teacher. And I told her my big idea that, oh, I think that I'm I think I'm going to quit, and I think, and she's the one that actually pushed me, like, on my way to Wayfair, I had the parent teacher conference right before, and she's like, go for it. This is going to be the absolute best thing you do for your daughter and for you, she needs you, like this moment in time is critical. You have, the passion you have, the skills you have, the time. If not for that teacher. I don't know if I would have felt great about it, because I was crying on my way up to go and quit.
My husband was completely on board. He said, go for it. I've seen you reinvent yourself multiple times. I've seen you grow in businesses here. And they're like, why not yours? And he's super entrepreneur, remember? So he's like, go for it. He's like, okay, the own things that we cannot have, the Rockefeller lifestyle and not the salary. Like, if you're okay with like, bootstrapping and camping and not traveling internationally twice a year with the kids, then we're good. So we took the leap, and I quit, and I went to Wayfair and I quit, and it was super hard, because I truly love what I did. So it was really hard conversations. What is it that you're doing? Many people told me I was crazy, that I was not thinking straight, that I had just had a concussion. Am I leaving all of this you went to MIT like the sunk cost, right? Like you've spent all this trajectory to get where you are? Are you leaving all these behind? And it's not that I was going to be a stay at home mom, or it's not that I was going to be no it was that I going to be starting a brand. But for all of those people, I was quitting life, right? I was just like, giving up. Like many, most people did not understand, but I saw that I was going to be building something bigger. But it was terrifying, because as I mentioned, I did lose my identity completely,
Alyssa Dver:
Like stunning, and you just said a whole bunch of stuff that I have to go back, because, like you said, people probably thought you still had concussion, you know, like, not all the synapses were together. You spent all this time and energy and probably money and all kinds of things to get into and do your MIT work. And you did that. And you were used to living at a high income level and doing like you called it Rockefeller things, you know, fancy trips and things like that. And you loved your job and yet you were like, No, I so you know when you said to yourself, no, I need to quit. What was the I guess, what was the real hope? Like? What were you hoping to change and gain as a result of walking in that data wafer and being like, I can't do this anymore. I'm going to do this other photography thing.
Andre Toro:
Yeah, so I think I was dreaming about a changing lifestyle, to be completely honest, like I wanted to be. I grew up with a mom present in my house, and that's a whole different podcast, but she was present. She married my dad, who had four kids, and then from day one, she had four kids, and then she had us so, she had six kids, so, and she was always present. And I always wanted to be present, and I was juggling. How am I going to be present? In this job, I used to commute to coffee. I lived in Lexington. By the time that I got home, was 6pm I was releasing my kids, and I wanted something different. I wanted to be there, but I'm super ambitious, so I didn't want to stay home either, right? It's like, how can I find something that I absolutely love to do, that I can't run my own schedule? And even though I was completely preaching by example, and I left Wayfair at five, no matter what, it was still not enough, right? Because they our commute, I could not tele transport myself to my house. So I was like, no, no, I need something different.
So I was aiming to change the lifestyle, to be able to provide for my family, do something that I'm extremely passionate about, make money, but be present, right? So it was kind of like the perfect storm, and I am, and I just transformed my biggest passion to my full time job. When I was in Wayfair I would wake up at five again to edit my pictures, right? My kids pictures, because I didn't have time at the time. So the fact that I could do for a living something that I could use my free time to do, I was like, this is the biggest week ever. Like, people are gonna pay me to do what I absolutely love the most. So it made sense, but it was hard because I didn't have clients when I jumped ship. Is some people Bootstrap, and they build something, and then they jump, and they never go from a hero to zero. I went from hero to zero because I didn't have any clients waiting for me, right? It was just the unknown. It was the hope my husband's commitment and like hope that I was gonna do it, but there was no reassurance. But I told my husband I don't have a disability, right? Like, if I ever have to go back to work, I can go back to work, but I'm not going to think that I have a plan B, because I want to go all in without a plan B. There's no plan B. This is Plan A, B and C.
If something were to happen, then I would then change to another plan A, but, like, I went in all in. So the very next day, I had I went to the bank account. I opened the bank account with my mom. I did the LLC. I found a lawyer, like everything, like, within a week, my business was established, and off I went. But telling people what I was doing and what I was aiming for was devastating in the beginning, because my titles and my the size of my team and my salary and my titles had always defined me, so I lost my identity. Like I even stopped going out, like for six months, because when people ask me, what do you do? I couldn't articulate as I do now with pride, like I'm a family photographer, and I specialize in family portraits and headsets. I couldn't say it because I felt that it was not enough, that it was not meeting people's expectations of me, of this nerd Hermione, that top of her class I went to MIT. No, it's like they had big hopes, and I was not fulfilling their hopes. But now, now I can walk into a room and, you know, I'm there because I own the room, but I be able to, like, refine my identity and like now, now it's a true calling, right? But at that time, was a hope. Was a true hope, but with no reassurance.
Alyssa Dver:
My friend, you know I like wow, and I say wow because you're right when you said you gave up your identity. We do look at our careers as who we are, and when we walk into a room as strangers and we want to introduce ourselves, we have to feel good about what we're doing like, you know, pull it off, so to speak. Right? You know, I'm an engineer, I'm a this, I'm a photographer. But you're right, you, how should I say it, the impression that people probably have between somebody who introduces them as a photographer versus a Microsoft engineer. There's a difference. So how do you how did you handle that? How do you get the confidence to basically be like, I'm a photographer now and I rock more than ever. Like, how did you reconcile that difference?
Andre Toro:
Yeah, I would say through tears. Like, I think I remember telling you the first time that I took happened to be the husband, went to Sloan, right? And when he met me and I photographed their family, was also one of my first clients. He said, what you went to MIT and you're just a photographer, yeah. And when I got to my car, I cried, I called my sister, the therapist, and I was like, and she said. Like you go there next time you tell him that, by choice, that you're a photographer, by choice, that you chose this. It's not like a demotion, it's that you chose it. But it took me a while to understand that people will not understand that they'll judge me, and that's fine, because I was so happy inside of me, still managing headaches, by the way, that took a long time to forgo, but I was happy I was building something, and I'm not afraid of the unknown. Like, one of the best things that you can give me is a puzzle. I love puzzles. I love not knowing where I'm headed. I love, like, the mystery of, like, fixing things and making them happen.
So I was having the time of my life. I was scared about the salary, but we have savings, right? It's not I jumped in and I couldn't provide for my family. If I were in a situation that the bread or where the money was going to come to eat, it would have been different. But we went from a place of my husband has a full time job, the benefits are still coming from his, so we switched that so we were stable that way, and that gave me freedom to do this as a plan A, but since I never had a plan B, I was like, I'm going to make it work, and I'm gonna prove the world wrong. So I found my confidence by, oh, my God, I'm gonna prove you. Like, I'm gonna prove the world that this is a way of living, and now I'm the living example of that. Now I make so much more money than my director role in Wayfair, right? And I own a studio. I have a team of five to six people working for me all the time, and like, it's absolutely incredible, but it all was because I did not give up early on when I lost my identity. I just pushed through, pushed through, and then the more I said it, the more I believed it, and the more confidence I gained. And then you just start doing the same thing that I did in corp.
So the first thing that I did was take a trip to Panama. Why? Because the photographer I wanted to learn from lived in Panama. She was doing a workshop, and I just traveled there, and then I ventured with a photographer from Colorado, right? And I did all this, and then I kept looking for coaches and mentors in the same way that I did in the core world. I'm sure. I found my own voice, my own style, and then took pieces from here on there, and I was, okay, this is it. This is what I want to do. And from the beginning, I said, I'm building a brand. I'm not going to be freelance. It's not a hobby, so this needs to make money. So from the beginning, I took that approach. So I was never an artist. I to this day, I don't consider myself an artist. Do I do beautiful photography, absolutely. But I'm a business owner. I'm not an artist, and I think that mindset, it's really, really important, because you're not giving your your work for free. You're just not experimenting life. No, you're just changing lifestyle. And you're this is a full time job, right? Do people see it as a full time job? I don't care, like, Absolutely. Don't care what they live and what they think, but it's so fulfilling. It's a life calling that even makes money. So it's kind of like a win, win environment. I control my own hours, and I'm there for my kids. I do not miss any game, and my husband is like, I don't know how you do it, because I'm there. I pick up and drop off, and I work like crazy. I am blessed with a mind that can concentrate in 30 seconds, so I can get into the zone really fast, and I work in chunks of time that for someone that might not be manageable, right, but that's just the way it is. And I know my kids will not be this little long, so I will get more hours as time goes back. And I know that, and I crave working time. So I absolutely love this. My husband has to unplug me at night because I would go and go and go like an energizer bunny.
Alyssa Dver:
Oh, I love it. And, you know, I could listen more and more and more to you forever and ever. But we're gonna take a really quick sponsor break, because I have one lasting question for you, and when we come back, you know, not everybody you said you were given the opportunity because of the concussion, to think, to have this divine kind of, you know, thought process, and it's beautiful. But not everybody is going to have that. Nor, you know, may look like, look at it that way. So when we come back, I would love you to give kind of in hindsight, which is always easier. You know, you're in Sloan, you have these ambitions, you know, what do you wish you knew then that would have put you on a path, maybe sooner, Better, Faster, easier. I don't know how you look at it, but we're going to find out in a couple seconds. We'll be right back.
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Alyssa Dver:
Andre thank you so much for sharing this really inspiring story you know it. It has a little bit of my own story woven in there when I started the American Confidence Institute, and I have a Wharton degree. So people are like, What are you thinking? Like, have you lost your marbles, right? And the conviction to make something that may be seemingly less prestigious not only work, but work so well, I'm applauding you in a big way through my heart, through my soul, and with all the things that you said, that you were enabled, your supportive husband, his benefit, your kindergarten teacher, your therapist. You had a lot of like, when I say help, you had a lot of support. But at the core of it, you had your own drive and need to succeed. In hindsight, when you were back pursuing your engineering, when you're pursuing your Microsoft credentials at Sloan. Would you have ever predicted being where you are, and would you want to get there faster?
Andre Toro:
Wow, that's a great question. I would have never predicted. I would have probably laughed I was more artistic growing up like I was an art so to the fact that I'm pursuing a live calling that it's around arts, I still find it mind blowing. So I would have never predicted, but I think every single step was there for a reason. Engineering school taught me how to think, then MIT taught me how to run a business, right and like, what questions to ask, and how to network, how to walk into a room, how to make connections. Then all the time within Microsoft was the first time and Wayfair tool that I was like, Okay, now this is money. Like, how do you make more of it, right? Like, how do you actually run that the business that you learn at Sloan? So every single step on the way was there for a reason. So I think I could have not get in here quicker. And it's funny, because most of my peers are 30 years old. Like, there's not many photographers around 40 that are having the time of them lives like, usually, like, and I'm in a coaching group, and, like, all of my peers are much younger, right? And I love that, because I found her calling and this path earlier on, but I think I wasn't ready. If I would have jumped ship into this world in my 30s or in my 20s, like it would have not, it would have not been what it is today. But because I was ready for it, I had the kids at the right age, like they were like, starting, like, elementary school at that time, I had, like, all this passion inside of me, this fire, and I knew I wanted to build something big. I was ready, so I think the time was right. God just gave me a concussion, because I think he knew I would have not stopped otherwise. I'm one of those, like, very, very ambitious people that without like, a critical stop, I would have not stopped to think, what is it that I want to do for the rest of my life? And I'm so happy that I made the switch at 35 because that meant that I still have, like, 30 more years that I can still do this and have fun. So I'm very, very excited about that.
Alyssa Dver:
You're you're, you are amazing and wonderful, and I love you, adore you. I'm so grateful that you shared your story, your energy, your positivity and your bravery, as well as, of course, your confidence. With my listeners, I'm sure people are going to want to reach out to just tell you the same and or maybe get some photography from help from you. So how's the best way to find you, reach you?
Andre Toro:
Yes, absolutely. So you can always go to my website. It's AndreTorophotography.com so our friend here will post it because it's hard to spell. You can also find me through Instagram or Facebook, and I answer to every single DM, either Facebook or Instagram, or if not, you can email me and my website. You'll get to have that access as well. So I'm here for you. I'm rooting for you.
Alyssa Dver:
Oh, thank you. Thank you for me. Thank you for everyone who's listening. And thank you for setting such a great example of really pursuing the thing that you love, making it successful, and maybe most of all, really embracing all the values of your kids, your husband and everybody on the same go you are. You have it all in a way that I think so many people are going to benefit from hearing. So thank you.
Andre Toro:
You're welcome. My pleasure.
Alyssa Dver:
Before we totally wrap up, I want to let you know that full transcripts and show notes for this and other real confidence episodes can be found on www.AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com/podcast. I also want to remind you once again that the best way to get confidence is to give it to others, and you can do it just by liking and sharing this episode on your preferred podcast and social media channels. You can even give me some confidence by noting topics you'd like me to consider for the future. So for now, this is Alyssa Dver. Thank you for helping to bring more confidence to the world.
Master editing done by Ben Weinstein with original. Music performed and composed by Jeff Mitchell. Real Confidence is a production of American Confidence Institute. All rights reserved.
