EP 92
Welcome fellow confidence crusaders, neuro nerds and success equalizers. This is your podcast, Real Confidence. I'm your host, Alyssa Dver, and I'll be sharing a bit of basic brain science, some surprising social secrets, and a touch of tough love. Why? Because I believe confidence is everyone's fundamental right and choice. So let's get to it.
Alyssa Dver:
I'm gonna have the pleasure. And I say I, because anyone who's listening, you're just coming along for the ride today, just saying, because this is one of the topics that I just love. And we're going to talk about creativity. And I have an expert, not just as a, someone who believes and preaches it, but actually is a creative soul. So Rich Kirkpatrick, welcome to Real Confidence.
Rich Kirkpatrick:
I'm glad to be here this morning, or whatever time it is for you. Right?
Alyssa Dver:
I know, right? You never know when people are listening to pause. But like, let's dissect that beautiful word, a little bit creativity, what does that mean to you?
Rich Kirkpatrick:
Creativity, I call it basically two things. It's something that's both beautiful and useful. It's something that has magical quality that you can't really put in a bottle. But it's also something is practical enough that it helps us live our daily lives. So beautiful and useful. And one of the illustrations I have is a great cinnamon roll my wife and I found in the Latin Quarter of Paris, we were hungry. But it was something that was both beautiful because it was this amazing pastry the chef made, but it was useful. We actually got fed.
Alyssa Dver:
Well, so a lot of pieces of that answer, and I love it. So you didn't say anything about unique? Does it have to be different, unique to be creative?
Rich Kirkpatrick:
I think this is an interesting thing that originality is not so much about being the only, the newest thing that's out there. What it is, it's what you bring to the table that makes something original because you know, as a musician, which I am, we only have 12 tones. I'm not inventing a new tone and the scale from hundreds of years, basically. So what my job is, is to be all the reservoir things that I am what can I bring to the table to iterate whatever it is that I'm making? That I'm the one making it? And that's what makes it original. Like I had chef and Latin Quarter that pastry chef, he made something original, he just simply twisted the cinnamon roll in a knot in a certain way. But really, he's using the same flour you and I have in a kitchen.
Alyssa Dver:
All right, well, culinary arts, musical arts, it doesn't have to be an art form to be creative or can people be creative in what we would consider non traditionally art forms?
Rich Kirkpatrick:
Well, I think of myself as an engineer in an artist body, because I really believe that everybody is wired for creativity. And I would say that I am not the only one. Scientists and neuroscientists in particular have mapped our brain and discovered that we have this unique ability of creativity, unlike any other brain in the animal kingdom. Well, all that to say is this, it doesn't matter if you're an accountant or a dentist, you have to be creative, you have to solve problems. And it's what an artist does, I think, is we do something in public that captures people's attention. And it kind of widened inspires us because it calls us to something more. And I think that more that's in all of us is part of what creativity is.
Alyssa Dver:
So you so interestingly, you said dentists. I was like I don't want my dentist getting my teeth. But you know, maybe there is this baggage that comes with the word creativity, like you don't want people to be completely off script, necessarily, but bringing their own experience bringing their own intelligence bringing their own adaptation as needed. So you know, I can imagine if I were a surgeon, I don't want to be too creative, but there could be some complication and I have to get, quote, creative, although I don't think they'd like us using that word there either. Right?
Rich Kirkpatrick:
Well, I think, I think yes and no, what I what I found out is there's these two brain networks that they the scientists who are involved in creativity, and I call it robots and wizards. So your robot would be the dentist or the doctor would be counted the wizard would be someone like me, who's a writer and a musician and I get up in the middle of the night and I write down something at frantically. And I try to basically we are both doing the same things as robots and wizards is just one we'll start with the process and the technique first on that journey to creativity the other will start with just this dream or this feeling. You know, like I have to start a business about this because just someone's calling me in the night and, and the truth about this is which is what I found interesting Is that your brain in imagination is logical, just like it would be in other kinds of functions. So we sometimes discount intuition. And so yes, that doctor still has to be intuitive, which is part of creativity. But they're doing it within the framework, which I call the sandbox, they have like this boundary that they're doing it in. And so whether you're a robot or wizard, you still have to be creative, which I just think it's another way of describing what humans do when they thrive. And that's creativity.
Alyssa Dver:
I really liked that I, you know, I often talk about qualitative data, and it is that visceral intuition type of information, right? We want to say they're just feelings. No, it's not feelings, it's your, it's your sixth or seventh sense. Whatever it is, that's picking up information in the environment, from a memory from all different places in your head and outside your head, that give you some kind of signals about what you need to think and do. And people often don't pay attention, whether it's coming from your stomach, your heart or your head, right?
Rich Kirkpatrick:
Oh, yeah. It's just like this engineers, when they computers, users, I live in near Silicon Valley. And I know a lot of engineers over the years, who are computer programmers, they have this thing called elegant code is kind of like saying that, that we talked about that cinnamon roll being so beautiful. But code is beautiful, there's a certain way of bringing that quality to it, that they just can't describe anything but saying this thing has, it's not just efficient, but it's this and it's, it's just beautiful, but we call it elegant, you know, and that field. So I'm thinking like, yes, it doesn't matter, whatever we make has some of this human, other it factor in it that we can't really put in a bottle. And if we realize and embrace that, it becomes really exciting. And that's why a lot of the scientist I've known over the years, which is only a few, because they're so hard to find. They're just always busy in their work. They're so excited about what they're working on. I mean, it's true, like a kid in a candy store.
Alyssa Dver:
I love it. I don't know if I've ever thought of code is beautiful, but okay.
Rich Kirkpatrick:
They would say elegant.
Alyssa Dver:
You said robots and wizards is everybody in one of those camps? Is everyone have the capacity to be creative?
Rich Kirkpatrick:
Yes, in my book, Mind Blown, unlock your creative genius. I talk about bridging science and magic. And so it's really the robot on the wizard. These are the two brain networks metaphors for really, that we all have. And so 20% of us are really like the wizard. And we you know, we describe what that is. And then the other 80%, most of us are trained to be the robot in our culture where we start with a process we find the one answer. So one goes from one place to many, the other goes from many places to one, but our brains need to do both of these things. And if we embrace the other side that we are not, or at least we are not, don't prefer, let's say that way, then we are able to grow, not just our creativity, but just our way of changing mindsets. And I think it's a really powerful thing. So this is why creativity, I think is important in our culture. Because if you want a conversation with a person who thinks differently than us, we have to travel to a different way of thinking enough to be able to listen to that person. And so this is where the robot and wizard, really we have these two things in us and bridging them and going between him quicker back and forth, is really how this super creative people operate.
Alyssa Dver:
Why? I mean, it's a societal issue, I'm sure but you know, is there a reason that you can peg why most people need to have their creativity kind of bridged, ignited, turned on?
Rich Kirkpatrick:
Well one, our brains are designed to be comfortable and the paths that are created for us or that we survive in we go through trauma. And so for me, you know, I was doodling and I'd get in trouble all the time, or I was I would talk about these dreams I had and was made fun of and so I stopped really talking about him. But if you're encouraged, let's say there's another universe where that same kid is encouraged maybe my brain, I'd be writing stories earlier, I'd be a writer at you know, 17 as opposed to in my 50s. You know, and so I do think that, you know, at some point as children, we're taught not to be that wizard part, mostly because our education system says we got to find that one right answer, but sometimes that one right answer is there. And you know, what a big myth is when people say the simplest thing is usually the right answer. You know, that's not true. You know, I mean, I don't want that doctors will tell you is not true. No, it's not just this thing. You know, we look for some kind of alchemy in our culture that's just going to give us this immediate answer to things. When really what creativity challenges us to do is to go to that painful awkward side or, let's say musician writes a breakup song. They're trying to process trauma, and they prove that processing traumas, being creative is big deal and healing.
One research that had people cancer patients who were with journal, their traumas, and the language went from me, and here's what I'm going through too we and how they fit in the whole world and became grateful for things. And they physically got better. And this has been repeated several times. So to be creative and to do your, my wife she gets stuck in a garden, tend to that or to put on dinner parties, or it doesn't have to be your vocation. But as a human way of thriving. When we make things, those parts of our brain, if we're able to move them back and forth, it takes a little effort just like a garden, you got to trim. That's really what it's about. So if we're just looking for a pill that says do this quickly, it's not going to work. But we look for something that we actually love to do, we kind of pursue the hard part of it, I call it embracing the awkward side. If we do that more, then we can grow.
Alyssa Dver:
So what happens when it's stifled though, do you see people who should have; should have, would have could have I hate those words, but now it's the people who were slammed down as creative, whether musician, artists, whatever they might have been, and they grow up, and they realize, you know, I'm really feeling like, this is a missed path that I had, you know, what, what's the implication of that?
Rich Kirkpatrick:
Well, I think the thing about being human beings, we are always changing. And so if we embrace that, you know, the call it Mr. or Mrs. Should have could have. And those characters are useless for us. Because we can't go back in time, you know, it's might be a good story to write. And I like sci fi, so that's great. But we really can't, we can though, take the point that we are now and learn a new instrument. It's okay to not be an expert on something, to show us one humility, but also to help us know that we're alive. If we're looking Oh, here's another thing, creativity, I think a process is not just a product, it's not just something that has an achievement attached to it. It's like saying a person's tombstone is their life, all that they've done before, that's what's important. So if we develop a process in our life, that helps us move forward into be present in ourselves and with those around us. That's, that's what's worth. And that's why creativity is great, because the process sometimes isn't going to create a best seller, or it's not going to I'm not maybe I'm not going to be a professional musician. But what it will do, like my brother, who's an accountant who plays incredible guitar, but neither for an audience, it's going to enrich our lives in such a way that we are more human.
Alyssa Dver:
Beautiful words, I, you know, I'm curious people ask me all the time, well, how did you get into being confidence expert? And what has been the change? Right? So I'm gonna ask you the same question. I don't think anyone kind of goes through their life saying, I'm going to be a creativity consultant, right? It's just not something that I think dawns on most people, but you, you’ve become an expert in this field, how and why? And how have you seen it really change other people's lives, your brother and other folks that you have experienced?
Rich Kirkpatrick:
Well, when I was a teenager, I used to look at my shoes, and walk around. And I changed, you know, I'm here, I'm actually talking to a person and hopefully being somewhat coherent. So what it took a teacher, my music teacher, who looked at me and said, Here's what you could be. And are we you know, as opposed to should have what could be what if? is a question that that helped me to see that there's more that my intuition which I was made fun of by teachers, and for doodling and drawing, I found out that if you have an ADHD brain, and you draw things down, you're actually journaling them in the visual part of your brain. So you're actually doing work. So I learned that some of us were wired a little differently. And as we discover those limitations, then we can learn that the possibilities still exist for doing greater things. So creativity came out of my own personal story of just trying to figure out, you know, something inside of me tells me that I could do more. This one teacher told me I could do more and do something with music. And I ended up getting a full scholarship to music school years later, and I ended up auditioning for the school play when it's the shy kid looking at a shoes because there's a beautiful redhead who's now been my wife for 34 years. So but it's stuck. It's, we can start like that if you could just see me, and I see myself as that kid who really did look down at his shoes, and it really did feel defeated, and really did feel like what could I even offer? Why should I even speak up but yet had words in me? So, to get a vision to have people around you who can speak that to you who could say to you, you could, if you chose to. And so it's that's the that's the marriage of that that teacher saying, you could me saying, I want to. And I can see it too.
Alyssa Dver:
Yeah, you know, and you said it's a limitation I don't, I don't know. And I'm sure like, in hindsight, you would agree with me on this, I don't think the way people think, in any regard is necessarily a limitation. It's just a direction, right. And, you know, the proof for me was really interesting, just recently, my younger son who is in a culinary arts program, and he is an extraordinary chef, I mean, just extraordinary on so many levels, and everybody who knows him would say the same, you know, has to take a couple of other classes outside of that to round out his Bachelor's in culinary arts. And every time he takes something like math or something that he was told over the years, it's limited, he can't get past it. And here I am the confidence queen, right. And so it's just one of those things that just proves over and over again, if you are told you're limited, or you can't do something, or you're not creative, for that matter. Don't listen to everyone. Just don't, don't listen to the doctors don't listen to the teachers and my husband's a teacher do like, it is not a limitation. It's just maybe a direction or a preference. So and you know, for what it's worth, I think in a lot of cases, it's a blessing, because it gives you that direction, and that guidance to what you love and what you're going to be the best in for yourself. Right?
So, you know, let's embrace that, that opportunity. So, Rich, I want to ask you one more question before we go to our break, which is I started to ask you, does everybody have the ability to be creative? And I think it part of your answer, you came back and said yes, just in different ways. So you know, creativity, at any age, creativity in different ways, you've seen it, can you give me some more examples of how people kind of pivoted, maybe even later in life, to embrace their creativity?
Rich Kirkpatrick:
I think the biggest the biggest thing, first of all, is realizing, like I said that we all wired for it. So you have to realize this isn't it's normal, to be creative. But the second thing about that is to see that doesn't really, it's gonna look different as people are different. It's going to look like a hobby for somebody, it's going to look like someone's job for another person, if they're, you know, a friend who's a music producer, and he just creates new stuff every single day, or like a chef might be iterations on their menu. So really, what it would look like, is really hard to say. Part of it, seeing what the steps of it are, and what researchers quickly hear there's like these four things, there's the preparation stage, there's the incubation stage, elimination stage, elaboration stage, and all that really means is you start out at some point you have to prepare, some point you have an aptitude. But now I have to take lessons when those scales, so I prepared. And then there's a period of time that you're working, but it doesn't feel like it's progress, you're kind of in a dormancy, maybe that's where you're at right now you're kind of in this it's underground's, like the cow chewing the cud. You can't make milk without that if you're the cow. But a lot of people on the outside don't see that that's what's going on. And then illumination in the bathtub says, ah, you know, it's finally illuminated. And see, we look at creativity as the only that moment in the bathtub, we don't realize all that's come before all the iterations and preparations and failures and left turns and things and we discount that or we forget about them. And we celebrate Oh, look at this idea that came to me well, you know, it really didn't, if you were to look over your shoulder look back.
And then the last thing of course, then you elaborate you kind of work on it, and you create whatever it is based on that idea. So if we see creativity as a process like that, we see the cycles of it. And we understand there's macro parts of it, where it's just bigger picture and there's micro parts of it. Like I'm thinking that you know, career you think of length of life, you planning your life, that's a macro process. But you might think, Okay, what am I going to do this week, and both of those things somehow have cycles to them. And so if we step back and look at life, having a cycle we have, we go around days and months and we you know, we have a beginning and an end. That's our limitation, really, you know, whatever that is, it's just the physics of being a human being. That's if we put all that into perspective, that kind of gives us freedom to be in the moment more often. And maybe I'm in that dormancy of the incubation period right now. Because I'd already done schooling and I've already done all these other things in my career. So I'm kind of incubating those things. And then maybe I have the idea finally so I think somehow that process I was talking about a lot of researchers and that's kind of prove my intuition. As I've seen things, I call it the dream sandbox and story you got to discover, then you develop and then you deliver. And wherever we are, we don't necessarily know. And so we can kind of identify basically where we are in the creative journey, then we can troubleshoot what it is that's keeping us back.
Alyssa Dver:
Rich, I want to take a quick sponsor break. And when we come back, I would love you to give folks out there who's scratching their head going, man, I'd really like to ignite my creative side and, and really start that journey. So maybe you can give them a quick tip to get, get going on that and we'll be right back.
Want to level up your confidence, your career, maybe even your coaching? Well, then head over to AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com. E-classes are there as well as our coaching certification program, and you don't need any coaching experience to do it. However, if you are an experienced coach, you can get ICF and SHRM continuing credit. It's fast and easy. If you work in an organization, consider bringing in a kickass keynote or uniquely engaging workshop. We also have team learning programs. And they all apply to build your personal and professional life, which makes them really special. They're great for ERGs, the leaders, member programming, or really any type of professional learning and development organization. So give us a holler at www.AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com.
Alyssa Dver:
I want to welcome everyone back. I'm here with rich Kirkpatrick and we are talking about creativity. So Rich, somebody who's been listening is going boy, I really would love to be more creative. What's the one thing they can do now.
Rich Kirkpatrick:
I mentioned that before in this talk, embrace the awkward. So what that would mean is listen to some music that you don't like try a new recipe, go visit a store that you are uncomfortable or you would never go into. And so what that means is physically do something that's going to cause your brain to have a new experience. And that will help ignite this curiosity part in your brain. And give you a point of confidently saying I could think of something different and new. Because that's really what creativity is. It's based upon bored and for instance. So you let yourself be bored is another idea. So that's an awkward thing for a lot of us. Put the phone down, sit in the silence, and see what happens. These are all awkward things for us to do. They're not dangerous things for us to do, but they feel like it. And if we can do something like that and find new habits or practices to try things like that. It could really inspire us.
Alyssa Dver:
Terrific. I love that. And I do that a lot. Actually, I do that a lot joined a choir recently, just because I wanted to reactivate that part of my brain. And it was scary at first, but very, very fulfilling as it got more comfortable. So I appreciate that advice, personally, to find you to read your book to get some more information about you what's the best way people can do that?
Rich Kirkpatrick:
I have a website. It's RKblog.com And my books on Amazon and anywhere you'd like audiobooks as well.
Alyssa Dver:
Okay, great. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and fusing and inspiring creativity and all of us and thanks so much for being on the podcast today.
Rich Kirkpatrick:
My pleasure.
Alyssa Dver:
Before we totally wrap up, I want to let you know that full transcripts and show notes for this and other real confidence episodes can be found on www.AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com/podcast. I also want to remind you once again that the best way to get confidence is to give it to others and you can do it just by liking and sharing this episode on your preferred podcast and social media channels. You can even give me some confidence by noting topics you'd like me to consider for the future. So for now, this is Alyssa Dver. Thank you for helping to bring more confidence to the world.
Master editing done by Ben Weinstein with original music performed and composed by Jeff Mitchell. Real Confidence is a production of American Confidence Institute. All rights reserved.
