Ep 28: Sexual Confidence with Liz Dube
Alyssa Dver
If you're smart and work hard, but just aren't where or who you want to be welcome to your podcast, Real Confidence. I'm your host, Alyssa Dver. And I'll be sharing a bit of brain science, some surprising social secrets, and a touch of tough love. Why? Because I believe confidence is everyone's fundamental right and choice. Let's get to it. We are going to talk about a sexual confidence. So, get the kids out of the room, don't be listening to it to on the speakers on the car if they’re in the back, but get ready because I've got an incredible expert with us today. Her name is Liz Dube. And she is a certified sex therapist. She's a coach and a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. Liz, before I go any further, I got to ask you, how the heck does one, why does one become a certified sex therapist?
Liz Dube:
It's so complicated and so simple. Talking about sex is fun. I mean, I remember being in high school listening to Dr. Ruth on the radio and thinking that is the best job ever. But the more complicated answer is I grew up in a progressive family, my mom was totally comfortable talking about sex and sexuality. And then with that, I became comfortable with it. And then I talked to friends, and they kind of assigned me the registered sex therapist and so they go to me for advice. And I lacked the confidence, though to do it as a career until I was older. So, this is my second career. And it wasn't until my 30s that I said, you know what, I think I really should be doing what I love, and I can be successful doing this. And it took a bit of professional experience on top of the enjoying talking about sex, too.
Alyssa:
So, what was your what was the first career was it related?
Liz Dube:
Kind of- I studied psychology. I also have a master's in Industrial Organizational Psych. And I worked with people in terms of coaching their behavior managers work life, effectiveness and balance. And so, I loved helping people. And it was great to be able to do it on a professional level. But then I thought you have this little special skill, talking about sex, why not help people and have so much more fun doing it? And so, I leaned into it, and here I am.
Alyssa Dver
I love it. I love it. You know, so one of my all-time favorite shows is the one from the UK called sex education. And literally, it's the greatest show and my son watches it. But here's the truth. Like he's like, oh, Mom, we can’t watch it together. I'm like, why not? Like, right? So, what is it that causes people to have this confidence crisis around this one topic mean, they'll talk about almost anything, I would think money is still a little sensitive, but talking about sex is like it's just what is it?
Liz Dube:
I mean, I think we learned from a really young age from our parents nonverbals and their verbals that this is not an okay topic to talk about. We can talk generally, we can talk about the dangers of sex, but we can't talk about the pleasures of sex. And so, I think that's what happens is that from an early age, kids ask about sex and procreation. And they notice their parents’ uncomfortableness and the shutdown that happens, and then they go from there to noticing it in society and how it's such a taboo. And then they go from there, and they get feedback from their friends, because their friends are also feeling uncomfortable because their parents are uncomfortable with it. And then you go into your first relationship, and that can often be really healing and make you feel much more comfortable talking about sex. But if that person is yukking, you're yum. If that person's judging the way that you're showing up and questions that you're asking and things that you're curious about things that you desire, then again, it's reinforcing all those old messages that you got from your parents. And then there we go. Yeah.
Alyssa Dver:
So, whatever the cause, right, it's kind of a bummer, because nobody likes to feel uncomfortable in any situation, but you don't die from not talking about sex. But I would say, I'm sure in all your training, it's very clear when you suppress something like that when you are uncomfortable, and it's such a normal, natural part of living. It's got to have some kind of negative ramification beyond just a little embarrassment, not talking about you can avoid that. Talking about a reality is that it's a problem, right? Yeah.
Liz Dube:
Basically, the problem is like, what happens is, then you're stuck here you are you you're growing up and all these other areas and you're not growing up sexually. You're staying that little kid that's 14, that's in puberty.
Alyssa Dver:
Yeah. So, it's embarrassing. People don't like to talk about it. But you're, you know, you talk to people all day about it. So, there may not be talking about it, but they're thinking it and they probably are doing it. Yes.
Liz Dube:
Yes. And, and I'll tell you, in my office people, every day, I hear something that someone's never told someone else. I'm the first person to hear it. And that feels lovely. I feel really, I appreciate that, that they feel comfortable enough to share that's also created by the energy that I'm showing up in, is I'm letting them know when they say, oh, this is my kink. I said, oh, tell me more. What's that all about? Like, where are you up? Like, do you like it this way? Do you like it that? And so, then I'm getting curious. I'm saying, Tell me more to it. And, and whereas a partner might be like, oh, why do you like that. And that message right there shuts you down, you go, oh, this is not a safe place for me to talk about my desires for me to just talk openly. And be curious people are much more comfortable talking about at a cocktail party about sex as long as it's not personal. It's like, we can talk about these general things about sex, we can talk to our partners about general things about sex, we could say, oh, yeah, you know, non-monogamy is totally cool. I know some people that do it. But then if your partner says, oh, is that something that you'd be open to you go? Why would you ever ask me that question?
Alyssa Dver:
Right, right. It's the person personal thing. So, you know, funny, I'm a confidence coach. I'm not a sex coach. But this is we share that people do not like talking about their own confidence. But they're happy to talk about the confidence of their kids, their spouse, their friends, and happy to help them with it. Right. So, there's this interesting angle, and I'm sure we could geek out on it. But we're not going to do that on the podcast, like what is the psychological root of why when we have to talk about our own needs, our own desires, our own wants, our own values it gets a little uncomfortable, it gets very uncomfortable, right?
Liz Dube:
I think it's so much more vulnerable than talking in general terms. You're saying? Do you love me? Will you accept me? When you talk about what you longed for, and desire sexually, and if your partner says, ooh, yuck, then that means you don't love me, it means that I'm not good enough. It means that maybe there's something wrong with me. And so many people for many, many years hold secrets about what they truly desire, what they want sexually. And the longer that we hold that secret the bigger the shame gets. And so, it becomes almost this like feeling of if I actually share this intimate detail of my fantasy, my desires, I could just die if my partner told me that that wasn't okay.
Alyssa Dver:
Yeah, well, it's disappointing. Right? It's very disappointing. I think it also opens up a little bit of that I don't feel like an expert in this area, right. Like there are people who are not just Liz, but there's other people who are extras and I'm not mean Alyssa nobody, right, like most people. And so, it also becomes that sense of, you know, I don't know what I don't know, I practice, so I guess, you know, the obvious question then is, how do people what's the first step to break out of the constraint? Like, do they go see a sex therapist? Do they watch videos? What it looks like the first step in getting over that paranoia?
Liz Dube:
We are so lucky now to the ways that we can learn about sex, Google, you can find tons of books, is it all accurate? Not necessarily, right. One of the biggest problems is a lot of people are learning about sex from Hollywood and porn. And neither of those are accurate. And so that really messes with us thinking, oh, I guess what I like isn't right. And so, I often recommend I give clients lots of resources, book books, educate yourself about what is healthy sexuality. And the simple answer is, anything goes as long as it's consensual. Anything that you feel like you like, and you desire, who fucking cares where it comes from? No, we don't have to pathologize that.
Alyssa Dver:
No, we don't. We dropped another C word with this, which is consensual. So, you where my brain went? I don't know why, but it's fine, right? Maybe it's good that this is audio only, is consensual? What if, what if you bring something to a partner? And they're like, ah, or I'm not interested in that, like, is that bad? It's a terrible? Is that the end of the road? What do you do with that?
Liz Dube:
It's gonna depend on each couple. Sometimes people are in this standoff where one partner wants something, and then the other partner feels like, well, I'm not even gonna edge in on that at all, because it's such a turn off. Now, that's where sex therapy can be handy. Some sex coaching to be able to get some ideas of how do we navigate our differences here, we don't have to just we don't have to end the relationship because we can't physically do this kink that you want to do. Are there ways to navigate it through verbal roleplay? Can you join your partner in their fantasy of doing the kink without actually doing it? Are there ways that you can act it out that might jive more with your partner's erotic map, and not feel like such a turn off? But if your partner is like, your kink really, really turns me off, then? I don't think that's completely the end of the road. But I think that really seeing a professional to be able to help you work through this because it's going to feel so shameful. And to be able to be in an office with someone who can say, oh, well tell me what it is you what, what is it about that fantasy that turns you on? And sometimes we find that that person's kink isn't what it appears to be on the on the surface level? Where a partner might think, well, you just want to degrade me? No, this is not about me, degrading you this is the way I feel when I imagine us playing out this kink, and then when their partner can understand Oh, okay, so this isn't about you degrading me, this is about you feeling dot, dot dot.
And those conversations are really hard to have because like, we started this podcast, which is that people aren't talking about sex. It's a skill. This is a skill that has not been developed because we stopped talking about it when we were five. I mean, when my when my kids asked about where do babies come from? I said, okay, well, there's a penis that goes in the vagina. And, and a few more sentences. Yeah, they laughed, and they were like, oh, okay, pass the peas. And no big deal. But other parents are like, oh, okay, well, Virginia and the, and the soldiers and. Yeah, the baby is conceived as Come on. Really? Can we just like the kids want brass tacks?
Alyssa Dver:
Well, in reality is like you said before, if you don't tell them, they'll just Google it up. I mean, it's not that hard anymore. Different than I grew up, like, you know, I had to go find people who actually spoke, right. All right, well, good. You know, we're gonna come back later. So, I'm not even going to break it because I'm not ready to break with you at all, but I want to talk a little bit of how do you build a skill as we say competence is a skill. And, you know, one of the things that, you know, we're talking about confidence, and we're talking about sex in both in terms of skill, I will also make the conclusion here that confidence gives sex, better sex and better sex probably gives confidence. Do you think there's a chicken and an egg here? Do you need to be confident to have great sex? Or do you didn't get great confidence from having great sex?
Liz Dube:
Hmm. I actually Googled the word confidence before this podcast because I was like, what is confidence? And really what I came, what I came up with, when I when I searched different interpretations is like, It's trust. And so, and, and being able to trust and so I thought, well, how do you trust your sexual desires? If you laugh, if it's like happening in a vacuum? I think it would be okay if there was no shame in our society if sex wasn't a taboo, but we are wondering, is it okay to have these desires?
So, I think that we educate ourselves a little bit so that we get a sense of everything is normal. You are so normal, everything that you desire is normal. And as long as it's consensual, it's cool. lean into it. If it feels good, go for it. And, and the leaning into that. Then you explain you're open to exploring yourself. You're open to exploring your partner, and that's where the confidence builds, I think that you can be sexually confident without ever having had a partner. If you feel okay with masturbation, having pleasure sessions with yourself and exploring your body and knowing what feels good and what you don't like, that is confidence because you're trusting of like, this feels good. I like it. And then if you can take the next step of feeling that it's okay, then you can communicate to that to your partner. And then if you're in a relationship with a partner, who it feels emotionally safe, they're gonna be like, Oh, okay, cool. Tell me more. Do I do? Do you like it this way? Or do you like it that way? Okay, more this way. Okay. And then and then between those two, you know, how do you like it? And that, then that reinforces the confidence of like, oh, I'm okay, I am good. In whatever I want. And desire is okay. And so, then that fuels the confidence. Does that make sense?
Alyssa Dver:
Oh, of course, it does. And, you know, my, my phrase on everything I do is to get more confidence, you have to give it away. And I think it's the same thing with sex. If you are more in tune with not just your own needs, but other people's needs, and you're giving them pleasure, they're gonna give you, it's a self-perpetuating cycle, right? You know, I think back of people in my life all the way back to high school, literally middle school, I think even the ones that I can remember vividly, they were like that person that just kind of ooze that sexuality, like they just had it. And its confidence or sexuality. Again, I can see real parallels here. You know, I think you're absolutely right, that they probably didn't have the experience, per se of other partners. Maybe we all thought they did, right? Maybe they said they did, but they had a sexual confidence about themselves, which probably then attracted more, and it created that cycle of yeah, actually, I'm pretty good at this. Right. But you know, I'm wondering, and in my memory, they were all men, for the most part, boys. Yeah. So, you know, I'm having a hard time remembering any females that had that you see differences across gender lines?
Liz Dube:
Well, you know, it's much more complicated for women. When we're confident, which way are we going to be interpreted? Are we interpreted as sexy or sweaty? And a lot of people if they feel themselves being interpreted as somebody that feels shameful, there's a judgement about that. And so then, I think, you know, what, I've talked about this before, I've blogged about this. People lie about sex. Men lie about how great they are at it. And women, lie the opposite. Women lie about how much they're having. They minimize; men maximize, women minimize, because if we're too confident, then it's like, oh, well, then you're getting around you little slut you.
Alyssa Dver:
You know, it's funny, you said slot. I was like, what's the male equivalent? It's like, I don't think there is an even like, when we say bitchy versus cocky, not in the sexual respect, but right. Cocky, also is almost like a compliment, right? It's it has a little nuance of like, Oh, you're so cocky. Right? And quite honestly, there is a sexual implication there that they are, quote cocky. Right. But you're right. Like, is there a male version of sloth? Is there like, oh, he sleeps around? Is that and it's not seen as bad? It's seen as like, you've got cred, right?
Liz Dube:
Yeah, it's like, it's like, wow, he's got skills. He's got game. Hate the hate the player? Not the game. The game not the player.
Alyssa Dver
Yeah, no, it's terrible. So, here's what I'm gonna suggest something again, like I kind of feel well, actually, before we do that, before we get to, like, I'm going to keep pushing the break off. Maybe we don't even take one. Generations, you sit in that against women versus men, you see, is there any age issues that come up as far as comfort with sex, and you get better as you age? And with, with age, you do get more confident? Do you see a difference between the generations in terms of their comfort level with sexual stuff?
Liz Dube:
You know? No, I'm not necessarily, I'm not seeing anything. You know. This is one of the reasons I became a sex therapist was I thought that as I got older, my friends would start to feel more comfortable talking about sex. I didn't see myself as special I just thought I saw myself I was like, I've matured faster, like I'm more comfortable talking about sex earlier in age. And so, then I thought that say in my 20s I have had these lawyers, doctors, successful people as friends. And the older they got same thing. It was like Liz, why do you have to talk about sex again? Ah, like, don't say cock ring? No. It was just fascinated that with more education did not I come more comfort, talking about sex and their desires. So, with this generation, I mean, they have Google. My generation didn't have Google, we had, you know, there were a few. There were books that people sourced. I had Dr. Ruth. I mean, I listened to her. I remember it was like nine o'clock every night on the radio, and like, so excited to hear and learn. And oh, and then we had Dr. Drew after that, that was a common radio show. But those were pieces where we could get accurate information. Google is not always accurate. And the porn that the kids are seeing is definitely not accurate. So, are they more confident? Because I wouldn't say if we're talking about confidence, and if that if I'm remembering that's the original question before it started to babble on.
Alyssa Dver:
Yeah, generations? I mean, are younger people are more confident in this.
Liz Dube:
I mean, how could they be if they're, I think it's, it's all about? I mean, maybe I hope that my kids are more confident than I am. Because that'll be each generation. Yes, exactly. Right. And so, if there are people my age are still struggling talking about sex. So, we haven't stopped the generational trauma of sexual shame.
Alyssa Dver:
Yeah, yeah. Well put while you're putting it, to me it is it's a sexual, it's a trauma. It is what it is. Yeah, absolutely. I didn't mean to cut you out there. But I was like that, that's what it is. I'm a related reaction and it is being perpetuated. So, I do have to give our sponsor a little love. I'm gonna just cut us off here for a few, minute or two, I promise because I know my listeners probably like I want to hear more Liz. When we come back, though, I want to talk about how do we get over that trauma? How is whether you're 20,30, 40, 50, 60, 70 I don't care how old you are like what kind of things can you suggest that people do now to get more comfortable talking, doing? Whatever that is. Alright, so give us a couple minutes, we'll be right back.
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Alyssa Dver:
Alright, so for those of you who are back with us, oh, we're still talking about sex. Yeah, you know, I lose I joke with people I so you know, sometimes people would rather talk about erectile dysfunction and confidence. But I think in reality, it's that sex word in general, that kind of like gets people up in a little hackle. So, if people are embarrassed about talking about it, let alone doing it, let alone feeling comfortable confident about it. Like what are some of the things that they actually can do right now, no matter how old they are, no matter what, assuming they haven't had a serious major sexual trauma, because that's a different issue. But how do the rest of us kind of feel a little bit more comfortable? What can we do?
Liz Dube:
I think there's some great books out there. One of my favorite books is called Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski. And really the theme throughout her book is you are normal. Everyone is normal. And she gives you accurate information about our sexual responsiveness about how society has influenced our reactions to talking about sex. And it's just every client that I've ever recommended it to says, oh my gosh, I feel so much better about what's happening with my body or what my desires are. And then I mean, there's great, there's great books out there that can help you to feel maybe more aware of your body, maybe more aware of how to lean into sexual acts that you're feeling maybe a lacking in skill. I mean, I don't think that sex is a skill really, I think sex is really about listening and paying attention and being present with your partner and being enthusiastic. And when you have all of those components, then the supposed skill will develop. Yeah, I post almost daily on Tik Tok, and I and I am always educating people. So, you could go to my tic tock at Talk Sex with Liz and check out those videos and those are accurate information. To be able to help you feel like okay, what makes up a healthy sex life? What are what are some? What is it that could ignite my desire? What am I doing on a daily basis that is creating more shame sexually? And I think following people on social media that are actual experts that could be helpful if you're limited in time, and you don't want to read a book.
Alyssa Dver:
Yeah, but you know, I couldn't go back as you said it, maybe you took back a little bit, your earlier thing that it's not as it is a skill, it's just because you comfortable and used to it. Like, if people never skied and you put them on skis, they're gonna have a hard time. And skiing is clearly a skill, right? Like you learn, you get more comfortable, you push yourself a little bit further each time. That's all part of that learning curve. And that's no different from what you're saying. So, is there like a baby step people can do other than read a book, watch the videos or something today? They can do right now.
Liz Dube:
So, you want to hear today? Yeah. Okay, well, I think that the reason why I hesitate to call it a skill is that I that your body knows what you like. And it's trusting in your body. If you are, if you don't have a partner, then what I would want you to do is to start in the shower with massaging your body and starting to identify what feels erotic, when I touched my body. Don't rush to your genitals, explore the outer elements of your body, and make your way into your genitals. And then once you're in a place of feeling sexy and aroused, then go to your genitals, and then that's going to feel so much better. Take it slow. And the more that you can masturbate and explore your body, then the more that you're going to know your body. And the more you're going to be able to articulate what you like, and what you want less of and, and then just be open to say, oh, I've never done that, but let's see what happens. Again, open to trying new things. And then with your partner, being able to say, hey, I don't know if I really know what your top turn-ons are. Can you tell me? Can you show me? And then hopefully that opens it up to where they're gonna say, well, what are yours? And then you can be able to reciprocate that. Yeah, I would also say that in terms of touching, being able to use different textures, different ways of touching, in a way that you say, hey, do you like Do you like it when I rub you like this? Or do you like it when I rub you like that? And that's a way to explore your bodies with that without and it's an easy response of like, oh, I like number one better than that. It's like, exactly. Yeah. And so, then you do number one, you go do well, do you like want to go faster? Or do you when you like it when I go slower? And go? It's like, okay, like, number one slower? Great, you have learned a new skill.
Alyssa Dver:
I mean, it's like part of that. But you have to deliberately try you have to even practice to some extent, right. And you've got to be that much more coming trust.
Liz Dube:
Body Knows what you want. And so, I don't trust my body on skis, I fall on my butt, and I fall on my face. And, and so, yes, and skiing is definitely a skill. But I don't trust is like, okay, is this gravity working? Is it like if I lean forward? Am I going to fall? Or is this How much do I need to lean forward?
Alyssa Dver:
Because you haven’t practice, right, like, we just got through the Olympics, and those ice skaters, you know, flipping on the ice, like, I'm lucky if I stand, right. So, it's, it's a matter of trust, like you said, and you know, like, this is, my normal podcasts are shorter than this, I want to talk to you for another hour. But here's the thing. You have some amazing resources on your website. So, I want you to do two things I want you to first give your website address so people can find you, and then maybe like direct them to one or two things that you think would really be a good, great place to start to engage in and then building their skill of sex.
Liz Dube:
Okay. Well, my website is talk sex with Liz, Google that you'll find me everywhere. I do a weekly newsletter, so you'll get accurate information about sex. I answer people's questions about sex. And if you go to my website today, you'll actually get the three tips to get you wanting. So that's for women who may be struggling with desire. Then go to my website and get that and then you'll be subscribed. add to my newsletter as well to be able to get weekly, great information and some fun stuff to make you laugh a bit. Then my niche is really working with women who are struggling with desire or struggling with the idea of like, how do I become sexually empowered this skill that you're talking about. And so, I find it doesn't really work for everyone to do therapy or to do coaching, some people don't really feel comfortable doing that. And also, I mean, not everybody's in California where I'm at. So, I offer now a four-week course for women who are wanting to ignite the desire from within themselves to feel more sexually empowered. And over that four weeks, they're going to work on dispelling all these sexual myths that have stifled our comfort, talking about sex, they're going to understand what's true about female sexuality, sexual desire, sexual responsiveness, and they're going to, they're going to identify like tools to be able to work on increasing their desire and then identify what am I doing every day to extinguish this desire. And then lastly, they're going to learn some tools on how to communicate with their partners, so that they can be able to start an open dialogue with their partners about what they'd like to be different, what they'd like more of, and to feel more comfortable with, with getting what they desire so that sex can be worth wanting.
Alyssa Dver:
That's great. That's great. So, for those of you are listening out there, first and foremost, you're welcome. This was awesome. Liz, I want to thank you so much. And for those of you and we have a very large male audience following so if you're saying to yourself, you want to order or buy that package for your partner that Liz just want to describe, don't do it, because that will defeat the confidence. But what you want to do is share this podcast with anyone and everyone including your partner's, tell them to listen to Liz, she's fun and funny and wonderful. And by the way, happens to have some great products on her website. So, from the two of us, I want to thank everyone for joining in. But Liz, again, you're fine and wonderful. And I'm so grateful for you doing this for me and the audience that's here.
Liz Dube:
Yeah, thanks so much for having me and boys. I'm sorry. I don't mean to alienate you. I love the ladies. But if you if you're needing support as well, I work with tons of guys that are wanting to feel more sexually empowered and overcome any sort of performance stuff as well. So, check out my blog as well, because I'm always writing about men and topics that affect men as well.
Alyssa Dver:
Yeah, nobody's going to be left behind on this one. All right. Thank you again, everyone. Thank you, Liz. Let's go have sex. So, before we completely wrap up, I want to let you know that full transcripts and show notes for this and other episodes can be found on the website, www dot American competence institute.com forward slash podcast. I also want to remind you once again, that the best way to get confidence for yourself is to give it to others. And you can do it so easily just by liking and sharing this episode on your favorite social media channels. You can even give me some confidence fuel by sending in any comments about the topics I've covered, or ones you'd like me to consider for the future. So, for now, this is Alyssa Dver, thank you for helping to bring more confidence to the world.
This podcast was produced by Mindful Media. All rights reserved by Alyssa Dver and the American Confidence Institute. Music written and performed by Jeff Weinstein.
