Ep 26: Stop looking for Happiness and Purpose at work
If you're smart and work hard, but just aren't where, who you want to be, welcome to your podcast, Real Confidence. I'm your host, Alyssa Dver. And I'll be sharing a bit of brain science, some surprising social secrets, and a touch of tough love. Why? Because I believe confidence is everyone's fundamental right and choice. So, let's get to it.
Alyssa:
I know I say this in every podcast, but I am so excited with this guest. And here's why. Because not only is Bruna De Palo, a neuro nerd, just like I, she actually titles herself as a neuroscience based executive coach. So, you're gonna learn some good brain science today for sure. But she is living and breathing right now in Italy, because that's where she lives. So, I live vicariously through Bruna in that way, as well. So welcome to the podcast, Bruna. I'm so happy you're joining me.
Bruno:
Thank you so much, Alisa. My pleasure truly,
Alyssa:
Well, we totally geeked out when we first met. And we're gonna do it again here now for everybody who's listening. But lots of what you talk about in particular, is so applicable to real life, real work, real careers. And as we were kind of prepping for this, I love your perspective on that people are eagerly looking for career change, and probably doing it in a way that is just putting them in a bad vicious cycle. So, before we get to the neuroscience of this, maybe just spend a minute and explain kind of like your perspective, why you're poking in this space, what you're seeing, not just in Italy, of course, but from all your clients around the world.
Bruna:
Thank you so much, Alyssa, this is really a hot topic. And it's also one of my favorite because I come from a wrong career, a very truly unfulfilling career where I wasn't feeling alive at all. That's where my journey started. And that's where part of my knowledge comes from. The other part is we say come from neuroscience and understanding how career should develop. But I would say it all comes from feeling, I was dead inside every day nine to five and just waiting 6pm to finally go out and leave accepted. But then I couldn't really leave because I didn't have the energy. Because eight, nine hours of unfulfillment don't just go away with a blink of an eye only because it's now finally time to enjoy life. So, these continuous unfulfillment was waiting on me so much. But then I felt that even when I was able to do my own life, so that's where it all started my understanding of how we should live, and how we should you know, run our careers.
Alyssa:
So, and you see this now through other people's eyes, and you use the word dead inside, that's a really powerful statement, maybe can you break down? Really what that feels like for the people? You know, how do they other people describe that feeling?
Bruna:
Yeah, well, first of all, I'd like to say that this has nothing to do with the job or the company, because it was a great company, great colleagues, nice environment, even some opportunities for growth and the salary wasn't bad. And I was in IT. Come on, there's nothing bad about that. The problem was feeling of feeling that inside was very much about me, and the lack of resonance with all these. So, I ended up in what I call a golden cage. It was all golden from the outside. It was just the inside it wasn't me. But it was very difficult to understand what was the problem because on paper, everything was fine. Looking at friends and colleagues, everyone said, Yeah, that's what a career is supposed to be. Why are you complaining? Luckily, I didn't accept that feeling. And I kept searching and searching. It took a very long time, though, until I finally see what was wrong in that. And what was wrong is that in my career, in IT, I was doing pretty well, because I was a very committed professional, but it was all coming from an effort. It wasn't coming natural. So, in my career, I wasn't expressing my gifts, who I am as a person. So instead of leaving as a human being, I was acting as a human doing. My being wasn't present at all in what I was doing. So that was the problem. And that's where the sensation of feeling dead inside comes from.
Alyssa:
Wow. Wow is not trivial. It's I don't even know what to say. I kind of feel like I want to pry. And I say that because 30 years ago, 20-30 years ago, I was also in the tech space, and I remember having a conversation with my manager who I'm still very close with to this day. And I would say to him, I know I'm doing good work, and I know it's relevant, and you're rewarding me, but I, it's just not doing it for me. And he used to say, well, you know, the technology is helping all these people, and it has all this great impact. I'm like, yeah, but I'm not seeing it. I'm not feeling it. And I don't know if it was that moment that I was like, I gotta go find it. And I think by stars every single day that I was moving out of that space of deadness. What happens when you hear that from other people, though, that are living in there? Are they stuck? Do they know that they're dead? Like, what? What's the symptom? And what is the vocabulary they're using? Because I didn't have the vocabulary then.
Bruna:
Oh, I totally get it, Alyssa, I didn't have it either. And that was part of the problem is because I was surrounded by people who were kind of in the same situation, it made it look and feel like normal. I'm grateful that my being didn't resonate with these and was screaming inside for a different solution. So, it didn't become the norm. But the fact that it was normal for everyone else, it made it difficult, like for you to find the vocabulary. I mean, I didn't know exactly what to express, I only knew there's life out there and I'm here lost and stuck. And I don't know how to grab it. And that's what I really, really wanted. I wanted to feel alive. But I didn't know how to phrase it. So, what I'll say at that time is I just want to change my career. But change my career is too generic.
What else can you do? That was the obvious question that another person would ask? I don't know. Okay, what else can you do? I don't know, I know how to design websites. That's all I could say. Because at that time, I thought that a career should be based on your skills and expertise. But that's the perfect trap. Because if you only count on this, there's not much that you can move. So, the big revolution came when I realized that I shouldn't have looked at skills and expertise. And I shouldn't look at myself as a person to finally open up new perspectives. But in terms of vocabulary, the only thing I could say at that time is like I'm not well, I feel there's something wrong. I wish I could give, get, do more. But it was also generic. And no one could help me really understand the core of the soul, and therefore I couldn't see any solution.
Alyssa:
Yeah, so I think that a lot of people search for culture as the cure. Right? They say I'm gonna leave this company, the culture doesn't align with me, and I'm gonna go find another company that has a culture that resonates with me, is that a solution? Or what do you what are your thoughts on that?
Bruna:
Well, I say that is already a step ahead, compared to what I was, because at that time, I wasn't even thinking in terms, in terms of culture. Now things have changed. I'm talking about more than 10 years ago, things have changed. And of course, there's much more talking about culture and purpose and meaning. And that's already a huge step ahead. However, I would say that culture as much as purpose and meaning and happiness, and once they are not a good compass, to tell you, what would be a what should be the right step for you. Why, because you can have a company with an amazing culture. The companies I work for, we're not bad at all. That makes you feel even worse if you work in a company with an amazing culture, but still, you don't feel alive, it means that that's not the problem. So, what we should pursue, instead of happiness, culture, and so on, which are important. I'm not saying no, I'm saying that we shouldn't use them as a compass. We should look at something else and that is aliveness, a sense of aliveness because at the end of the day, if we feel inside that we are that what we're asking for is feeling alive. And that is an emotion. So, if it is an emotion, we need to add the emotional dimension to our choice of a career.
I can't ask for an emotion and then go for culture. Because the two things are different, they don't they're not on the same level, one contributes to the other. But if I want fulfillment and aliveness my emotions are the first thing I need to look at, to ensure that I go in a company that not only is great on the outside but resonates with who I am as a person.
Alyssa:
Speaking my language my friend again, I'm kind of close to tears here. I know. Our listeners can't hear you can see I'm like literally glossing over really. This is so awesome. And what's awesome is here I am speaking to somebody who speaks English as a second language, and you throw out this word aliveness. That we have to spend another few minutes on because aliveness the way you just described, it is beautiful, but let's get really down on that. What do you mean when you speak about aliveness? You said it's an emotion. It's a feeling. Is it something that it's in me or the company or both? And you also use this resonance word that I love. Do they both have, or do they both have to be aligned? Talk to me about aliveness.
Bruna:
Okay, so aliveness, it's a word that I love together with fulfillment, because I didn't have them this word at that time, I didn't use them. But it totally represents what is that we should pursue? Not only because of course, it feels great. But because it's the key for mental and physical health as well. And even more I can tell that aliveness is the key for financial growth, too. So let me tell you a little bit more. Firstly, it's an emotion, okay. And by emotion, we mean energy in motion, it means something, there's a stimuli outside that triggers a movement of energy in our body, which generally is due to some, the production of some hormones. It’s that energy in motion that makes me feel in a certain way. Now, the thing is, is when we feel alive, that we put our brain in the condition to perform at its best. If we don't feel alive, we cannot perform 100%, we can be truly committed. Because we are serious professional, as I did in my previous career, I can do pretty well. But it comes out of effort, and, and overtime is not sustainable. I was putting a lot of effort, but there wasn't any feeling in return of that. So, aliveness is that sensation that you have, that you're contributing with your being with who you are as a person. And as I said before, you don't act anymore, as a human doing, but you work as a human being. So, you feel alive, and you express your being through the doing. So, the being has to come first.
So, aliveness is only possible when you do this, when you bring who you are into what you do. And because you do these, you tend to produce that bonds, specific balance of neurotransmitters that allow your brain to perform at its best. And in fact, this is key for peak performance. And that's how aliveness can also help you achieve certain financial goals. Because, I mean, if you look around, and you see people who are truly fulfilled and successful, it is they are successful, healthy, successful, because they express who they are, into what they do. And when you do these, you also have the big benefit of using your natural gifts. So, which means whatever you do, you do it in a certain flow. And you tend to do it better than others because it doesn't come from effort. It comes from commitment, but not from effort. It comes from a gift. And that's a whole different story. So that's how you feel alive at work. It's when you use your gift, when you exploit leverage and use your being into the doing. That's the key.
Alyssa:
I got chills; I love it. So, I warned you listeners this is going to be awesome. And it is. We're going to take just a few minutes here and speak minutes few seconds. I can't even talk I'm so dumbfounded, Bruna, you say so many things that my brain just grabs, and I love that. But I need to give sponsor love when we come back let's talk about how people can find, identify and use those gifts that you just mentioned. Let's get down and dirty on those. We'll be right back.
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Alyssa:
We're back we're going to talk about how you my friends who are listening can find and use those gifts to feel aliveness, as Bruna said earlier. Bruna, tell me I feel like I tripped on them over time. And it took me 57 flippin years to finally figure out my gifts. And you're right, the financial flow and everything came around it, but it was very happenstance. So, if somebody's listening in, they're like, I want to find my gifts. I want to feel alive. I want to find that career that makes me resonate in a positive, productive, high-performance way. What did you do?
Bruna:
Good question that had a number of things that they can do, and they're all based on observation. There's not much sitting and thinking about what should be my gift. It's not about this. It's about observing. After all, we said, aliveness comes from expressing your being through the doing. So, what you need to do is not thinking is observing, noticing when you tend to feel alive. And if you feel alive, most likely, it's because you're doing something that somehow involves one of your gifts. So, observation, in the sense is key. Some concrete actions that your audience can take is perhaps preparing a reporter. And every day, every moment that they feel alive. Question, what is that I was doing? What was the trigger that made me feel alive question? What does it mean in a wider picture of my life? And how much of this do I normally have in my life? How much my current career is tapping into this into this gift? And eventually, what can I do to express it more in my career? So, preparing everybody can be as simple as an Excel file like this, as long as it's handy. And every time you notice a fluctuation of your energy, you may want to report what's the gift involved, or what is the activity that is, you know, bringing your energy down. And because you want to make decisions, if you want to change your role, if you want to change your company or industry, based on that you want to make decision based on how you function, and how your brain and body respond to external stimuli. And not just thinking what will be right or wrong for me, what's right or wrong for you, it can only come from how you react to things. So, observation is key.
Now, some other tips here could be thought about what it is that people tend to compliment you about more often. Other people tend to be way more objective than us in noticing our gifts. I've been told a few things like, for example, that my energy was contagious, it was very inspiring. You know, I've heard these thing so many times. It was nice, thank you. But it never ever occurred to me, Alyssa, that my energy could ever be a gift or an asset. Now that I have a completely different perspective, I can tell why I was so unfulfilled. I mean, it was in front of a keyboard in silence all day. So, my greatest gift that people recognized and I took for granted, it was closed in a drawer where it wasn't utilized. No wonder I was feeling unfulfilled.
So, looking at what is that people tend to say more often about you is a great way to be objective. And you should have a long list of gifts. And I'm not talking about five or six, which is what normally my clients, you know, bring when they start this exercise and you ask and I asked them, what do you think are your gifts they can with five, six items, I'm talking about something way longer. That goes beyond talents, by gift let me just spend a word on what is that they need to look for, what is a gift? Firstly, we say gift is that thing that when you use it, it makes you feel alive, and it makes you do better and faster. So, a gift can be framed as something that somehow comes natural to you. When you use it, you tend to do it well. And that when you use it, it makes you feel great. So, if something ticks these three boxes, probably it's a gift, and you want to discover at least 30 to 50 of them. And it's not necessarily a natural talent, it can be something that you have acquired over time, maybe something that you've absorbed from your culture, from your family from your religion, or it can be something that you painfully learned through your life. Maybe you come from a tough situation, and you manage to turn that poison into medicine. And when you use that knowledge, you tend to feel great. It comes natural to you, you tend to do better and faster because of that experience, then that is turned into a gift. So again, observation, listening what other people say even going back to old praises from previous bosses for example, or recommendations on LinkedIn. What is that people tend to notice? And then reflect okay, they have noticed these, and these does it pick the three boxes, comes natural makes me feel great, and I tend to do well and faster when I use it. Then it's a gift. And there are of course other techniques, but I think these are the most important to start with to create this long list. And that list becomes a compass that gives you a direction, on what role or company you should go for. So, you will notice that then culture, as you said before, will resonate with you. I'm just saying we shouldn't use culture as a way, because we will lose all the power that comes from discovering our being, and therefore the possibility to bring who we are into what we do.
Alyssa:
I love it. I remember, many, many years ago, we were sitting around my dining room table, and my younger son who liked to do this often, in some form, went around and he said, you know, we're gonna say something nice about each other. But in this instance, he said, just one word that you would use to describe the person next to you. And my father, who was not what I would consider very intellectual, was sitting next to me, and he said, Lyss, you're solid. And I said, Dad, what do you mean by that? It goes, I don't know. You're just solid. And my sister said, it's like, when I go to a family event, I don't feel grounded until you're there, until you show up, then all of a sudden, I feel right. And I thought, how do I use that. And so here we are today, talking about confidence, talking about aliveness talking about our gifts.
And so my gift at that moment became very evident to me that if I can help other people feel more confident, not only does it help them, but it really makes me feel good to exactly what you said, and Bruna, talking to you today, talking to you last time when we met, you make me feel really confident too and you make me feel very excited to know, there's another neuro nerd, and somebody out there, that's crusading, too. So, thank you, thank you, thank you. I know people are gonna want to reach you and get some of your tools and your books that are coming out and things that are just going to change the world. So, what's the best way to reach you?
Bruna:
Thank you so much for your kind words, Alyssa, it's been a great pleasure. And yes, I'd love to be in touch with your audience, they can find me on my website, www.Brunadepaolo.com, or my new website that is fully dedicated to career change specifically on this perspective, you know, on aliveness, that is www.the careerchangemaker.com. Where there are some tools, there's a program, there's a there's a blog with lots of insights, because I think the first thing that we need to do, at least if we want to make the world a better place. And I know this is the aim of millions of people in the world. We need to start by making our own human revolution. And the first step is understanding how can we be more fulfilled, because only if we are fulfilled, we can inspire others and give more and spark this positive revolution. So changing career or in any case, making a choice that will make you feel alive is all about selfish is really the best way we have to serve the rest of the world. So, I highly encourage everyone to discover their gifts and find ways to express them more in the world will make such a huge impact and so many level. That's really my wish.
Alyssa:
Mine too, mine too. And my wish is that you and I do a lot more of this kind of work together because it's just fun. In the meantime, thank you again for sharing your wisdom today.
Bruna:
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Alyssa:
So, before we completely wrap up, I want to let you know that full transcripts and show notes for this and other episodes can be found on the website, www.AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com/podcasts. I also want to remind you once again, that the best way to get confidence for yourself is to give it to others and you can do it so easily just by liking and sharing this episode on your favorite social media channels. You can even give me some confidence fuel by sending in any comments about the topics I've covered, or ones you'd like me to consider for the future. So, for now, this is a listen to you thank you for helping to bring more confidence to the world.
This podcast was produced by Mindful Media. All rights reserved by Alyssa Dver and the American Confidence Institute. Music written and performed by Jeff Weinstein.
