Episode 22: Real Confidence - Selling with Confidence with Meshell R. Baker
If you're smart and work hard, but just aren't where or who you want to be. Welcome to your podcast, real confidence. I'm your host, Alyssa Dver. And I'll be sharing a bit of brain science, some surprising social secrets, and a touch of tough love. Why? Because I believe confidence is everyone's fundamental right and choice. So, let's get to it.
Alyssa Dver
My friends, Real Confidence podcast listeners, you know, I think there are some topics that are just so important that people don't even ask about them until all of a sudden, it's like, oh my god, I'm seeing everything out on the internet, about sales confidence. So, we have not just an expert, but somebody who has an incredible story herself, Meshell R. Baker, and of course, check out her bio and other contact information in our show notes. But Meshell, thank you for joining us today to talk about why and how sales give people the heebie jeebies.
Meshell R. Baker
Well, thank you for having me. It's a topic that's near and dear to my heart. I know confidence is something you're passionate about as well. So, let's dive in! This is really fun it and it's important for people success. So, let's dive in.
Alyssa Dver
Absolutely. Well, put. So why don't we start just really quickly because you're I mentioned you have this really stunning and I say stunning in a positive way, background. Can you give people a sense, you kind of overcame a lot, had some really interesting turning points, but just give them a summary of how you ended up being a confidence sales coach, amongst other things.
Meshell R. Baker
Well, the gist of the story is I am formally incarcerated, I did not major in anything sales related, it was actually finance. And I tripped into it as being valuable, being valuable to environments, wherever I show up, I look at how to do and give the best of who I am. And it always ends up delivering more than I anticipated, more and exceeds my expectation and those of others. And that's general that's how I ended up at where I am. And that's the principles of what I teach as well when it comes to confidence.
Alyssa Dver
Well, tell me a little bit about who you teach, who's the typical audience? And what are their kind of what are they saying to you about, you know, what are they looking for?
Meshell R. Baker
it very, so my clients are either female founders, women, business owners, sales leaders. And they have already, like, they have a sales play with their sales leader, they have a sales playbook. They have a team they've done, gone, and brought people into train. They have a sales process and it's not it's not sticky, they're still morale is low, its performance is inconsistent. And they're struggling, or they really talented people who are struggling with their products or programs and their processes. If it's an individual, they have gone through, especially women who work with me, they have gone through something in their life that has just really jolted their awareness and they no longer believe in the circumstances and situations right, they divorce, job change, relocation. So, everything they did has led them up to that point and now they're doubting and questioning their abilities yet and still, they know they're gifted and talented. So, there's a disconnect.
Alyssa Dver
There's a disconnect. You told me originally there are no questions that are off limits. So, I'm going to dive a little deep already with you jolted, traumatic, or even, you know, just something that we you know, like you said a job change or something that's just enough that's making them question their own worth. You certainly said you were incarcerated; you've had some major mentors in your life. So, I suspect that people come to you because not only do they want to know what to do but they need the confidence like you said to remind them that they are actually as smart as they do think they are they just have to be reminded. Is that a valid comment?
Meshell R. Baker
Absolutely. Very valid. Yeah.
Alyssa Dver
And coming from somebody like yourself who has that presence and that calmness and that ability to say to them look, you are okay in your processes, while may not be perfect. You have the opportunity to really overcome whatever's going on in your head. Right. So
Meshell R. Baker
Exactly.
Alyssa Dver
Now you said women. Is it only women?
Meshell R. Baker
No, but I always said my ideal client is women. So, I'd say 80%, of who I work with, and individuals are women, and then it kind of flips to, you know, 60/40 when it's sales leaders, because well, in the marketplace, most of sales leaders are males. So that's where they actually are looking for, like I said something more intuitive. So, people get a sense that they like I said, they the processes aren't working. Right. And if people are human sales is emotional statistics show that a sales transaction is 80%, emotional, and only 20%. Logical, right? So we are by nature, emotionally driven. And that's the work that I work with. If you aren't tapped into your emotions, you cannot help a buyer to tap into theirs and move that sales over the needle, it becomes a struggle.
Alyssa Dver
So, give me some real-world scenarios, people come to you and they're like, oh, my sales game is not working, I'm failing, or what are what do they say to you? What is their expression that it's not working? How do they know?
Meshell R. Baker
Most people just ask me, how do I get more clients? I mean, they're just that and the conversation to me is I always go “why do you want more clients”? Right? Or why is that? What do you have to offer that's important to the client, so I always take it back to something different? And then underpinning and that's how the conversation will start there. That's what an individual if they're looking for more sales and want sales coaching, generally, most people when they come to me for individual coaching, they it's because that they are they're scared of selling, they keep talking about what they don't want to do, right? I, you know, I want to sell but I don't want to be salesy, right.
They want it to be effortless and easy. They, you know, I want to I want a thriving business. And I don't want to sell, I want to learn how to how to get clients without selling, right? Like, that's not going to happen, you got to sell, it's just a matter of learning how to do it in a way that's authentic to you. How to have that conversation and take that buyer across the finish line in a manner that feels good to both of you. Because it's a relationship. It's not you know, it's not as transactional, as you think it is. It's more relational.
Alyssa Dver
I love that I love there's so many gems in what you just said, I actually teach a class myself on pitch. I teach it at a couple of universities and organizations and pitch contests. And I always say a pitch is not a presentation because a presentation is informative and you can actually suck and get by with that, right? Like people don't get pissed off, they may get like it was not a good use of my time. But a pitch is a sale of some sort. You may be pitching a product, you may be pitching an idea you may be pitching to ask for grant money, and there's all different flavors. But it's the same issue that both sides as you said, the person that you're pitching to, and you are kind of on that high alert like sale come in, right and that sale word is or sales where it is just dirty, for lots of reasons. We don't have to go into it. But I guess my question to you is, dig a little deeper with me. Why? Why are people so wigged out when they have to like they don't want to sell? What are they really worried about in your opinion?
Meshell R. Baker
Fear of rejection. Absolutely fear of rejection. Again, it goes back to the emotional component. Most people aren't trained to deal with their emotions when it comes to sales. They're focusing on the close, right? And they're focusing on getting a sale. And I always tell people, when you focus on what you get, it becomes difficult. It's all about you. And intuitively and intrinsically, we're humans, we're nature, we're mammals, we have this sense of when something's off, we just have this ability to dial it down and act like we don't. That's what causes most of human turmoil is going against our nature, right? And selling is against the nature having a conversation with someone and finding out about their challenge and aligning your offer with their challenge. And when your offer doesn't align, referring them to someone else who can do a better job, that's natural. That's not what most salespeople do. That's not what most salespeople are taught to do.
Alyssa Dver
Yeah, it makes total sense. And you know, all the bodywork that I do is all about the fear of rejection in any aspect of your life. But when you're going to sell you know that there's a high likelihood and you know, I always say like even interviews, you're selling yourself that may be the hardest thing to walk in and think I'm going to be rejected because they're not going to like me if I'm selling a product I could always use the excuse that it's the product or you know, the weather or whatever. How did you sell somebody start overcoming that fear? And again, let's keep it specific to a sales situation that they know they have to sell. It's part of their job, whatever their title is, what's the first thing they need to do?
Meshell R. Baker
The first thing I ask is, why do you want to sell? Why do you believe your product is in the best interest of that person? So that is the first thing that I focus on with anyone? Because if you are focused on you, and if you don't know why, right, then that means go back to the drawing board have go back to that person and tell them you know, I want to clarify before or when you get on the call, spend time clarifying and uncovering, if there is an alignment to your offer and their challenge. It needs to be all about you. I find and communication especially nowadays, it I was like in my head, when I'm hearing people, I'm like it's not a contest, because most responses, people will tell you, instead of asking an additional question, they want to tell you about themselves like to hear someone say something awesome. And they're like, oh, I did that too, or I do that too. Rarely is communication about the other person, it is so rare that I actually engage. And this is what I teach people is how to have conversations that are about other people.
Alyssa Dver
So, let me ask you point blank, when somebody gives you the answer to your question, which is a beautiful question, like, why is this product or why is this service relevant to the person you're selling to? And they give you an answer, and you're going, oh, that's such crap, that is not a value to anyone, you just sell it, you're trying to sell it? How do you get to, and I struggle with this myself when I'm doing coaching to be perfectly blunt about it, telling somebody that they are so full of it? How do you turn them around to make them realize, like you said that maybe not everybody is gonna want to, like you or buy your product? How do you do that in a positive productive way?
Meshell R. Baker
Well, why don't of the things I start with is, when I start working with someone, I make them completely aware that this is going to be the most difficult thing you ever did. Because we're going to be dealing with a lot of underlying emotions, self-limiting beliefs, we're going to probably pull up some stuff that you need to remember that has happened, and I am here and then I tell people a lot of depth self-deprecating things about myself, to put them at ease, I show them how vulnerability what it looks like what it sounds like. So, when I am faced with telling you, you suck, which I will never say in that way, I'll say exactly, in a very different way that they can receive it, they will receive it, because they know they trust. And remember people hire me intuitively. So that intuition will override any feeling and I can dial it back really fast. Because I can always trace it back to that intuition that they first sought me out.
Alyssa Dver
Yeah, you know, I have an immediate pet peeve that a lot of times people, coaches, especially I should say, will tell you oh, that's great. That's wonderful. Keep you know that it's like this friendly, polite stuff. But you know, when you're talking about sales, as we've been doing here, you're absolutely right, if they believe that their product is the end all be all, but there's no value for the people that are buying it. And unfortunately, I mentioned I do pitch work. You know, every entrepreneur thinks their baby is the most beautiful and it's hard to tell somebody, your baby is ugly, and your breath stinks. Right, like, get over it. But I think that that's a really important thing. You did that critical in a loving kind way. Like you said, that's hard. So good for you for doing that. I think the world needs more of that, you know, it's called honesty and truth. But it is wrapped in helpfulness. And you clearly have an intent to want to help people and I think that's phenomenal. So, tell me a little bit. If you have specific examples, those are always really awesome of like people you work with before and after, and how, how, and what changed in them and their success. Just you know, what's the difference?
Meshell R. Baker
Yeah, I've worked with an Olympic athlete who was retiring and went through imposter syndrome and struggled greatly with becoming an entrepreneur and a speaker and having been an athlete her whole entire life. And we worked did the confidence work. She contacted me six months later to tell me that she kept the work right, because I give them a cadence that they follow after me anyone who works with me after the six months and she is now she requalified is now participating in the 2022 Winter Olympics, because that's what she found her true calling was so she's still going to be a speaker. She's done her TED Talk and she has sponsors and you know, she called me while she was at Lake Placid to tell me that the work, we did has helped a lot because there's a lot of negativity. Right? And you, you know, people, that's our nature doesn't care who you are and where you go. So yeah, that's it.
Alyssa Dver
Wow, that is spectacular. Thank you for those. We're gonna take a super quick sponsor break. And when we come back, Meshell and I are going to share our best sales competence tips.
This podcast was sponsored by the American Confidence Institute, ACI trains smart, hardworking people how to use basic brain science to more effectively coach themselves and others. ACI is endorsed by top universities, the Strategic HR Management Association, and International Coaching Federation. Learn more about ACI weekly empowering keynotes, workshops, classes, and coaching certification at www.AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com.
Alyssa Dver
I want to drop two of my favorites, there are more than tips, there were mind shifts for me that made all the difference. And I do claim to be a extraordinary salesperson, I have almost close to 100% success rate on a sales call. So, I would say that's pretty good. And I'm going to buy you a little time to think about one or two tips that you think can really make a difference for somebody who's listening here they can go off and really feel more confident next time they have to pick up the phone or go to a meeting. And so, for me, my two tips are really simple.
One of them was that make it clear that this does, you don't have to buy this like this is what I got. This is something that I believe can help you and here's why. But I think there's that desperation that peeks out of people's pores, sometimes I gotta make my quota, or I gotta sell this or I'm going to be rejected. And if you kind of say, you know what, it's a meeting for me and you to connect and figure out if I'm right, that I think this is really going to help you. And if it doesn't, if it's not a good fit, I'm walking away. So, it supports a lot of what you said. But in my head, when I make that call, I have to remind myself that that's the goal is just to figure out if it's as good if it is I think it's going to be for the person. And the second part is to be an absolute hound on feedback. So, when somebody says no, I am admittedly ruthless, Meshell, like I will go and I've done some things that I'm not too proud about literally hound down their text numbers or something and be like, I don't want you to buy but I just want to understand why you decided not to. And nine out of 10 times, it has nothing to do with me. It has to do with budgets or positions or whatever. And yeah, I also remind myself that there's a lot that you can't control in a sales cycle. So, for me, those are my two bass. What about you give us one or two out of your brain?
Meshell R. Baker
Yeah. And I think the first one will apply to you focus on what you propose not the clothes. And so that's I tell people, You people are so busy trying to close, right. And I say successful salespeople don't hear no less. They just they actually hear it more. So, they've built up a resistance and a resilience to it. Right? Because they're focused on, they're not focused on closing, they're focused on proposing value. Right. And when you focus on your close, you actually feel rejected all day long. Because as salespeople we hear no, all day long, not everybody's gonna buy, like most salespeople don't have 100%, like you, right.
So, when you focus on what you propose, you actually win every call, just be valuable, and you win every time. And it actually allows you to go back, you can follow up, you can follow through, you can do all kinds of magical things when you're valuable in that conversation versus trying to get something from someone. And the other thing is think about to spend time in getting in a state to create. Right. You can't get an apple tree from an orange. See, when you go on that call and you're emotionally desperate or nervous or fearful, you will only create more of that on the call, spend time getting to know that person and getting to know yourself and visualizing success. That doesn't mean visualize closing visualize that call going exceptionally well, you and that person walking away, exceedingly happy and jubilant about the opportunity to have connected and learn more about each other, and each other's businesses and the opportunity. So that's what you focus on. So those two things will help you be successful.
Alyssa Dver
I love that. You know I gotta clarify when I said 100%, its 100% when there's a fit right? And my father, bless his heart, used to say you got to throw a lot of stuff against the wall before it sticks. That was his way of expressing about my brother-in-law who is a who is a life salesperson, too. Said to me one day as you know, sales, like you also said is that kind of a numbers game, we get a lot of nos. He says in fact, at 10 calls or 10 meetings, you're going to get probably eight or nine, maybe even 10 nos. Yeah, but kiss the people along that path. Because when you they're making it easier for you to find the next one. And I again, it was like a mind shift. For me that was major. And I think in some ways, maybe some sums up everything we're talking about is you know, get out there and talk to people make it less about the product and about you make it about what they're looking for and figure out if it's a good fit. And if it works great. And if it doesn't work. Thank you for that opportunity, I got to go find number 10. So, any last thoughts before we wrap up this podcast? Meshell, I love your attitude. My folks here on the podcast can't see how you have the most electric smile and just a beautiful aura about you. But I know it's come through in your voice and your wisdom here. But any last thoughts that you want to just give to our listeners today?
Meshell R. Baker
No, just you know if you have something that you believe is valuable, stick with it. Practice, right. Repetition is the mother of success. And that's what most people don't realize. They give up and they stop, and they quit. Don't quit.
Alyssa Dver
Don't quit. Well, thank you so much for sharing your brilliance with me and with the audience. It is so refreshing to hear and see somebody of your perspective and just the way that you deliver your message is really confidence building. So, thank you for being part of the community.
Meshell R. Baker
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me on. This was a lot of fun.
Alyssa Dver
So, before we completely wrap up, I want to let you know that full transcripts and show notes for this and other episodes can be found on the website, www.AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com/podcast. I also want to remind you once again, that the best way to get confidence for yourself is to give it to others and you can do it so easily just by liking and sharing this episode on your favorite social media channels. You can even give me some confidence fuel by sending in any comments about the topics I've covered, or ones you'd like me to consider for the future. So, for now, this is Alyssa Dver, thank you for helping to bring more confidence to the world.
This podcast was produced by Mindful Media. All rights reserved by Alyssa Dver and American Confidence Institute. Music written and performed by Jeff Weinstein.
