Ep 20: Dealing with Gossip at Work and Otherwise
If you're smart and work hard, but just aren't where or who you want to be welcome to your podcast, Real Confidence. I'm your host, Alyssa Dver, and I'll be sharing a bit of brain science, some surprising social secrets, and a touch of tough love. Why? Because I believe confidence is everyone's fundamental right and choice. Let's get to it.
Alyssa Dver
I love getting listener feedback! And so, when I got this request to do a session on gossipers, I was like, whoa, tell me more what's going on here. And at the same time, we were watching the analytics for some of the past podcasts and have been stunned how popular the bully and bully related podcasts have been. So, I'm going to take on this very narrow topic if you'll stick with me on gossiping, because I think this is something that not only is prevalent and very harmful, but it's something we can actually do something about. And it's no surprise that when you are the victim of a gossip, in other words, somebody gossiping about you, it hurts. It really hurts and whether it's true or not, it's very, very harmful to the person that’s being gossiped about, of course, particularly in the workplace. And we're talking today about grownup gossip, which is pretty hard to swallow, because you would think that we would lose that ridiculousness in adolescence, but no, no, not at all. My mother-in-law, in fact, is queen gossiper. So needless to say, I want to apologize for all the people that have been hurt by gossip, because it's just inexcusable, but it is a reality of our social constructs. And it seems that not only when you are the source of gossip, and you know that, but we're even. And I say we, I'm not just talking about women are very paranoid about being gossiped about. I giggle a little bit, because if you've ever gotten to get your nails done, and they are speaking a different language, I guarantee you all like I do wonder if they're talking about you, right? I'd love to bring Google Translate next time with me and I think I might just do that. Because when you don't understand and they're giggling and laughing, and they're looking around looking at you looking at others, again, we get paranoid, we don't want other people to be talking about us behind our back, in that case, in front of our face in a different language. But it really causes that that level of insecurity, lack of confidence, and it is poking hard at that fear of rejection, that we don't belong, that we are not being accepted by whoever's gossiping about us. And how ridiculous is it that the nail techs you don't even know you could possibly be doing that? But yeah, it's pretty pervasive, it's common that you feel that way.
So clearly harmful to our egos, our psyches, our sense of belonging, our confidence on all fronts. And gossip is a funny thing. I think most people who do the gossip don't expect it's going to get back to the person who's being gossiped about but inevitably it does. And so, when I say there's no expectation that it gets back, I wonder, you know, if you've ever gossiped about somebody or been part of that pattern, you know, of course, it's going to get back to that person. It's like an unofficial game of telephone tag and the more that something secret of course is the more that people want to share it so it gets back and I do remember going to one of my high school reunions many, many years ago and seeing one of the girls that had been very much a subject to being picked on and all the kinds of gossip that went around if you have any of you remember giving each other cootie shots it was that day and age where you know somebody in the class was always the victim of you know, she's got cooties, she's terrible, she's not cool. And when I saw her at the reunion it literally shattered my heart because she clearly has mental challenges very, very hard social interactions with her and again, even at the reunion people are gossiping about this woman and how she really fell off the rails and all I could say it was our fault. It was our fault. We allowed the gossip to happen. We allowed the gossip to get to her and we're all guilty.
So, nail techs, playgrounds aside for a second because as grownups in the workplace, we assume that the policies and the protocols, the decorum that's expected in a work environment might minimize gossip. And I think to some extent, it does, but it doesn't eradicate it. Workplace gossip is so common, in fact that I don't think we notice it half the time. And if you've been a victim of gossip and happen to get that clue from somebody else who says, you know, by the way, Alyssa, they're talking about you behind your back, it's probably rare. But you will have it at times show up in maybe a performance review, or in a conversation about a raise or new job or something that you're trying to go for in that organization. And the other person that you're speaking with is telling you that they heard that maybe you don't deliver on time, the work or you're not, the quality is not always there, or that you're difficult to get along with whatever it might be that they haven't experienced themselves, maybe. But they've heard from somebody else gossip, it's a form of gossip. I have a feeling we've all been not just maybe the victim, but also the promoter. And making a snide comment out of frustration, likely not intentional to hurt somebody, but that I just wish Mary would deliver once this one time on time. Right, something like that or, you know, she is such a difficult person to get along with, I just can't work with her anymore or, boy, I really wish she doesn't have to be on our team, whatever, that kind of flippin in the moment frustrated comment. It's a form of gossip. And again, it's so common, we don't even think about it. But you say that to one or more people. Next thing, you know, they may be agreeing with you, they may be perpetuating that. They may not have even believed that before you said it. But all of a sudden, they're like, oh, yeah, you're right. You're right. And they tell somebody else, and so on and so forth. So that's the gossip, ugly chain that gets created. Again, maybe not in maliciousness, but certainly out of frustration.
And it's common, as I said, so common, we don't pay attention. But how does this wind up biting us all in the butt later? Well, certainly for Mary, it could impact her future opportunities, right? Of course, like I said, some promotion or new job that she's going for that hearsay becomes a truth for that hiring manager in some ways. But what about the impact on the team? What about the fact that no, everybody that was part of that gossip link thinks that Mary's a slacker. You know, how does that create a toxic environment for everybody who has to work with Mary? Of course, it does. And so again, I want you to think maybe in the last couple of weeks, even or the last day, have you said something about somebody else that could have caused that impact on the team, on your own ability to work with that person, because now all of a sudden, you're like, she's a slacker, and I don't want to work with her.
So, let's talk about why it happens. And I think there are pretty clear reasons why it happens. It's a form of making yourself feel superior, like any bully, and subsequently diminishing somebody else's values so that you feel better about your own. And you know, duh that's classic bullying, classic lack of confidence on the bully trying to fulfill it by stealing, villainizing somebody else. So pretty easy to understand why it's kind of funny too, in a pathetic sense, that often the gossipers are the ones that are the most quote popular are the ones that seem to be the coolest. But in reality, they're only getting their cool by elevating their own status at the at the cost of somebody else's. So very sad on that front. I also think there's certain people that really are addicted to that gossip pattern. And again, I mentioned my mother-in-law, one of them I have a couple so I’m a little safe saying that. But there's grown up people that are just constantly gossiping, they feed off of it. It's like fuel for them. It's entertainment and drama and all those things that make life exciting for them. I don't know I can't really understand why somebody would do that. The sadder part is not only do they do and get caught up in that constant pattern, but they drag other people with them, and I find myself getting kind of lassoed into that pattern whenever I'm with those kinds of people they want to do is talk about other people. And did you hear? Did you see that? And it makes me feel equally dirty when I slip into that with them. In other words, they're gossiping about somebody, and I contribute, or I agree, and I certainly don't shut it down. And then afterwards, I feel terrible. Again, remembering that high school colleague and thinking to myself, we have to do better, we can't be part of the problem, we can be part of the solution by just not participating, for sure. But maybe just shutting it down and saying, you know what, this is not cool. So, I'm going to give a break right now to our sponsor, and I have some very specific ways that we can not only just shut it down, as I mentioned, say, no, I'm not going to participate. But I want to give you some ways that if you are the victim of gossip, if you're being bullied, I want to talk about very simple and non-scary ways to deal with it. We'll be right back.
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Alyssa:
Alright, so now you are in a conversation with somebody who's gossiping about somebody else. Again, maybe the easiest thing is not to say anything, not contribute to it. I level up from that would be to say, hey, you know what, I don't feel comfortable talking about that person or talking about anyone behind their back. And you can make it about you. A level above that is to be like, hey, this is not cool to talk about this person or talk about anyone behind their back is a little bit more confrontational to the gossipers. And if you really want to amp, it up, be like, hey, if you want to talk about that person, do it in front of their face and let them participate. And again, a little bit more confrontation on it. So, depending on where your comfort level is, don't say anything, say that you're not comfortable participating. Call it say it's not cool to do this in general. And then third, fourth, rather, maybe say what, you know, if you think that maybe you should talk directly to the person so fine, if you're in that situation, and somebody is bullying somebody else. But what if you are the one being bullied? What if you are the one that they're gossiping about? Now, I'm sure the typical advice that we've all gotten in the past has been to just ignore it. Just ignore it. It's not important. It'll go away. It's not relevant. And ignoring things you know, yeah. If you ignore it, and you really don't let it ruffle your feathers, some people can do that. My husband is much better than I am at that, great, I don't take indifference as my personal strategy. It's actually the word that I hate most is indifference. But sometimes it is good to just let something go and saying sayonara, let it let it fly away. But if you can't do that, don't want to do that. Particularly when somebody's talking smack about ya. I want to offer you something a little bit more. Constructive and constructive, unfortunately also means a little bit more confrontational and we nobody likes confrontation. Right confrontations is yucky, it's uncomfortable. Unless you're really into fighting like you like to go into the ring with people so to speak and verbal basis, but for most people, myself included confrontations not particularly comfortable.
So again, following the same kind of pattern as I laid out before, if you're involved in a gossip situation, that's not you. When it is you, you can take very similar steps. You can go to the people that are gossiping and a person that's gossiping about you and say, hey, knock it off. You can take it head on. You know that was totally uncool. You're uncool. Don't do it. Yeah, some people will feel comfortable doing that. Sometimes I do just because, you know, confidence expert who is gonna mess with me, but if they do sometimes, they go and give it right back to them like that. On the other hand, there's a little bit softer way to do it. I would appreciate now if any of you've listened to the podcast with that, I talked about pet peeves and making them more productive. It's the same concept. It says I would appreciate, if you would not talk about me behind my back, I would appreciate you not spreading that rumor. I would appreciate if you have an issue, that you bring it to me and not talk to other people about it. So, it's a positive way, doesn't put people in that cave person, reactive defensive mode, in the brainstem, it actually starts with I would appreciate so it's about me. Not, I'm not accusing you, but I would appreciate it if you didn't do that. So again, a little softer than knock it off. But it still says, I heard what you said, and it's not cool.
You can also approach the person and you ask why. I heard you've been saying these things. And I'm curious why you would say that. Going to somebody and asking why. Why are they saying those things in almost an innocent curious way is another way of saying to somebody a is not true. And b I want to understand why you're picking on me. Why are you saying these things? Why me why you? Now the game here is to not raise that emotional fear for them. So that they go into brainstem mode. So, they start acting like cave people and get defensive, defend what they're doing or otherwise, explain that you are crazy.
We want to keep them in that prefrontal place so that we can actually have a conversation and understand what was their rationale, why are they gossiping? What are they doing? Now again, I recognize that these things can be very hard, because they do involve some kind of confrontation. When you get to be a victim of gossip, all you want to do maybe his hide under a rock, but the best way to get it resolved and actually, not just stop it, but maybe even learn from it, like find out what they're gossiping about. And again, it's a hard truth. But when anybody gives you any kind of feedback, even if it's crappy feedback, like gossip, there's usually a morsel a thread of some truth in there or something that you can learn that you can say it really sucked that this is how I had to learn it. But is there something in there that maybe is worth my thought. And the thought could be Hey, you know, they don't like the fact that I'm a confident person. They don't like the way that I come to meeting very well prepared, and they're not. And that's why they're gossiping. And you can say to yourself, well, I'm not stopping that screw that. But it's a good lesson to know that that may be the impact I I'll give you an example of that exactly. In a recent pitch contest that I was coaching for, we do this all the time I coach for Rhode Island, and I do the work it warns Innovation Center. And it's one of the things I absolutely love working with entrepreneurs. And often it's a real mixed bag, there'll be some new graduates, there'll be maybe 40–50-year-old people who are experts in their field that have either been the inventors or tapped to lead the organization because of their expertise. And oftentimes, we'll get much older people 56 years old, to come in they are the CEOs of the company tap to lead the group with their experience. So, this is not an age thing, in general, but this one woman was very experienced so much show that not only was she kind of saying in her pitches, how successful she's been in the past and, and everything that she knew, and she kind of came off very arrogantly. And at the same time, while I would make the argument that you have to show that you have the experience and know how, particularly in a pitch contest, where other people may not have that experience, you, you certainly become almost like a target for that kind of gossip. And that's what happened. One of the other things that I said to her, which is just a side note is particularly in a pitch contest as a judge, because I've judged them a bazillion times as well. It's hard to vote for somebody who seems like they don't need your help.
Right, that that there may be somebody else in the crowd that is really good in terms of their invention and their personality. But maybe they don't have that experience. They don't have the connections and network so it's much easier to vote for somebody like that. That votes for somebody who keeps telling you how experienced and great they are. At any rate, lots of gossip went around about this This woman and she had a really, really important set of innovations. But that awareness helped her change her pitch. It helped her change the way she was interacting with the other contestants and with the other people involved in the program. But I think it also made her aware that when you stand up and kind of rub stuff in other people's face, there's ways to do it that very productive. But there's also ways to do it to create this kind of bullying, gossiping behavior. So, lesson learned.
So again, asking why gaining more data trying to use it as a learning experience. I know it sounds almost like come on Alyssa get real, but I do have one more suggestion. And this again, is if you are the victim of bullying. Is to solicit an ally. Now I know some of you may know that I run something called the ERG Leadership Alliance, very proud of the work we train leaders within organizations who are either launching or expanding employee resource groups or affinity groups. And Allyship is a huge topic. And Allyship literally means getting somebody who may or may not be of the same type that you are to really stick up for you, so to speak, to advocate to help you get visibility in the right way. And that's, that's in the diversity space. It's a critical thing. But I believe ally ship is important in all aspects of our life. So, if you're being bullied, find an ally.
Find somebody that not only can honestly tell you their perspective of the how and the why and who and what's going on. But they can also stick up for you. And it's easier for an ally, to go to the gossiper and say, hey, knock it off. Or I heard you said these things about so and so and I'm curious why you're doing it. So, it's always easier to be that kind of middle person. And finding an ally can really help you get to the source of what's going on and also stop it. Now. Is there a risk sending somebody else to fight your battles? Of course, but again, if that ally is were well prepared and not as confrontational to the gossiper, to the bully, I suspect there could be some very positive work done.
So, can we commit to not being a bully? Please say yes. And sometimes we slip up by being part of that gossip or circle we get roped in by somebody else who's really into gossiping. Next thing we know we're doing it to we're going to try our best not to do that we're going to try and tell those people you know I don't feel comfortable talking about so and so behind their back. So, we're going to commit to doing that please say yes.
If we are the victims of bullies, we have those options as I laid out to either take on the bullies ourselves or ask an ally to help because ignoring the bully. Now it's the easy path out for sure. Ignoring gossip, we don't learn from it. Okay, we can live with that, maybe. But remember this, if they're gossiping about you, they probably are gossiping about other people or will be and like my high school scenario, if I could do something different, I would certainly stop the bullying then. And I'd like to try and stop the bully going forward. So, I hope you'll join me in this mission to call bullies out to stop the gossiping. But if you are a victim of gossiping and have dealt with it in some other productive way, please share it because there's so many people that could benefit.
Thank you so much for tuning in today. So before we completely wrap up, I want to let you know that full transcripts and show notes for this and other episodes can be found on the website, www.AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com/podcast. I also want to remind you once again, that the best way to get confidence for yourself is to give it to others and you can do it so easily just by liking and sharing this episode on your favorite social media channels. You can even give me some confidence fueled by sending in any comments about the topics I've covered, or ones you'd like me to consider for the future. So, for now, this is Alyssa Dver, thank you for helping to bring more confidence to the world.
This podcast was produced by Mindful Media. All rights reserved by Alyssa Dver and the American Confidence Institute. Music written and performed by Jeff Weinstein.
