Ep 16: Degrees of Confidence
If you're smart and work hard, but just aren't where or who you want to be, welcome to your podcast, Real Confidence. I'm your host, Alyssa Dver, and I'll be sharing a bit of brain science, some surprising social secrets, and a touch of tough love. Why? Because I believe confidence is everyone's fundamental right and choice. So, Let's get to it.
Alyssa:
I'm here with a very special person in my life. Miss Jeanette, Dr. Jeanette, is here in the house because I want to talk about something that is not only kind of fun and diss on a lot of people, but she is one of the most decorated degreed, brilliant people I know. So, no one better to talk about it firsthand. And that is the subject of I get told a lot by people that they're not feeling confident, and their answer is to get another degree or certificate. So, I'm going to ask my friend Jeanette here, if we can feel this apart. Is that okay with you, Jeanette?
Jeanette:
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Let's do it.
Alyssa:
Alright, so let's start kind of almost in the beginning a little bit, we're going to post your bio and give people some contact information for you personally. But let's just give them a picture of your, what you do, and a little bit of your credentialing because if anyone reads it on paper, they would be oh my god, like I was, but we're gonna hear your voice and realize you are the nicest, sweetest most awesome person in the world. So, tell them about all the great stuff you've done from a degree perspective.
Jeanette:
So, I have an earned doctorate from the University of Southern California in public policy and policy administration. And I have that degree because I thought I wanted to be a college president. I did until I realized what they do and figured that wasn't a job for me. But I was too far along the degree and finished it and so glad I did. Because it allowed me to learn things and experience things I wouldn't have otherwise. I have a master's degree in student development and higher education administration, my undergraduate degrees in sociology and psychology, the main thrust there that you can hear throughout all three of those degrees, people, productivity, organizations, and how we can all be our best selves.
When I graduated, with my doctorate, I was recruited by Intel, and they needed somebody to align their strategy and their learning and human capital activities. And so, it was there that I began coaching people. And I really felt like I owed it to them, and to me, to really make sure that I had the right pedagogy, the right foundation, to do what I was doing. And so, I then went and became a certified coach through the Hudson Institute and went through a series of accreditations and certifications there. And there still once again, one piece led to another I also did two postdoctoral programs in neuroscience, learning and leadership. That's how you and I made the connection through our work and friendship.
And for me, it was understanding how to do better what we're spending, you know, gazillions on, and do it so that we get something for that money, and people get it. So, I have, in addition, I'm certified on probably half a dozen assessments. I'm a certified talent optimization specialist. So, anything with people and how they do their work. I've had a lot of formal education. Now, for me, it's a treasured asset, because it's one thing that can never be taken away from us. And so, for me, you might ask, well, does that build your confidence? And the answer is no. I was in search of something, which is what these degrees certificates and training programs were about for me. The institution rewards me for earning a degree or completion, and they award me when I have fulfilled their requirements. But what I know is that I have earned and acquired the information I need to do the work that I do every day and that's why I have as many additional letters as possible after my name.
Alyssa:
You do, you have a whole alphabet, actually. But you know, let's get some, let's, you know, we're friends. So, we can be really honest. And you know, what can I tell you? I'm kidding, I hope people really are tuning in because I, I do hear this a lot is that people want to fix their confidence by getting a degree, they get the degree, they pay the money, they do the work, and then they get it and they feel good for maybe a day or two or a month. And it dissipates. And I'm wondering, from your perspective, do you think it hurts confidence or helps confidence to get that degree and why?
Jeanette:
You know that you need to know why you're doing it. Let's look at an undergraduate degree. You know, the average student that graduates have more than $40,000 in debt when they graduate, and they've probably spent at least five years getting there, of their life. So, it's a lot of time, it's a lot of money. And they are then supposedly able to do something with that, get a job, work in a specific field, and, you know, live a good life. Does that make you confident? No, because then you're competing against people who have a master's degree, or you're competing against somebody who's been in the field for however long, the confidence has to come in knowing that what you do is good, right and well. And that you're able to perform as needed, whenever you're called upon.
You know, the thing is, people will say, if only I had gone to an Ivy League school, or, you know, people will apologize and say, oh, I went to a community college. So did I, that's where I started out. I'm a first-generation college student, the first time in my family that I, anybody in my family went to college. I also, by the way, am the first to graduate from high school. So, when I went off to college, you know, I didn't know anything, I didn't know how to choose a major, choose courses. I just showed up at the community college. They're built for that. And so, I always say to people, wow, that is great. How did they help you, you know, and tell them about my own experience? Because I think we all need to take pride in whatever we've done to take the next step. So, we shouldn't be apologizing for where we've been or what we've done.
Now, there are lots of people that, you know, hail that banner that they've gone to an Ivy League institution or a very expensive private institution. And I did, I went to a very expensive private institution, on scholarship. And, but I went for a purpose. It didn't give me confidence. But what where I gained confidence was having knowledge, skill and ability that I didn't have before I went through that program. And that's what people should be clear on.
Alyssa:
I love that. I love that, you know, it's just kind of a coincidence. And this will air well after but I'm doing a talk and I'm not going to say what university is, just suffice to say it is one of the tops in the world. And I'm speaking to one of the alumni groups, about how and why being so smart actually can work against your confidence, because the expectations are so high. So, what's interesting to think about and you validated in your own story is you went to college with almost no expectation you just kind of went you did your thing. I think in some cases, there are a lot of cases that people have grown up in families that have had lots of degrees, maybe their parents were doctors or lawyers or whatever it is. And they follow those paths because they have that quote, expectation, whether it's real or not. And they get into that career path. And either they're not cut out for it. They're not motivated, whatever the reason, and I think it really does kick their confidence really hard. Now you teach at some pretty elite places. Are you seeing some of that in your classrooms?
Jeanette:
Absolutely. I have learners sitting in a class, and they're not the least bit interested. They're there because their parents are legacy, meaning that their parents attended, or that it was the epitome of a win for the family because their kid got into whatever university or college. Let's say somebody goes to an ivy league institution or one of the Seven Sisters are very expensive private institution. And they find out it's not the right environment for them. But then they spend however many years going through and getting a degree from that institution, never enjoying themselves. What a waste of time and energy. You know, I mentioned at the outset that I thought I was going to be a college president. I had in my own head, the vision of being able to be the chief of an institution and affecting the learning and curriculum and bringing the best practices to the university. And a leadership manner that I envisioned was the scope of the role, only to find out when I began working with, very closely with a university president. He said to me, Jeannette, what do you think I do? And I said, Oh, you're the leader of this grand institution. He said, stop. I carry a tin cup and live in a big house. And I looked at him and I said, what, and he said, I fundraise. And he said, that is my job. I'm supposed to raise money for this very austere, you know, very highly respected institution. He said that big house, he said, I live in an apartment smaller, then, you know, then most of my graduate students, my wife, and I have two bedrooms, a bathroom and a kitchenette. He said, this house that I live in is for parties, 365 days a year, we have parties here of some kind or another, or meetings. And so, I looked at him, I said, I don't want to do that. And he said, then you don't want to be a college president. You know, and I was like, oh, my gosh, but think of how many people aspire to something, and never have that experience of testing it the way I did.
Alyssa:
Yeah. And they bust their hump to get all those degrees. And all that required, right? You see, even on a job description, I know that people won't apply where it says, you know, masters, or some kind of advanced degree preferred, couldn't possibly do that job, because everybody else is going to have right? So, turns me into a direction where again, we're going to get very real. Even as somebody myself who has an elite degree, when I meet somebody else with a fancy degree, or lots of letters in their name, like I said, if I were to read your bio, and not know you, I would be intimidated. And I wonder if you know, given that you do have all those letters behind your name, do you find yourself when you meet or read about somebody else's, that for a moment, you go, Oh, they're very important. You get intimidated?
Jeanette:
Oh, for sure, a shade or two. But people like us, with advanced degrees, incredible experiences, the brands that I have on my resume, people look at me and say she grew up with a silver spoon, they have no idea what my background is. And one of the things that I have learned, people will say to me all the time, oh, I have such a different experience. I'm working, you know, I'm putting myself through school. Yep, that's what I did too, they look at me and say, really, so we all make assumptions that whomever we meet is better or different or inherently wiser. Or, in some way, they're good or not I’m good, they're good I’m less. And the thing of it is that the instant that you accept, even as a doctoral student, the commencement of any degree, is completing the degree and beginning the next phase. And I really remind myself of that commencement, ending one phase beginning another. And so, there's always going to be someone smarter, more experienced, better brands, you know, that have that have different than I do.
And so, the key is to enjoy that when you meet somebody like that, and, and learn from them and absorb from them and observe them. Because we're all you know, it's I don't know if you have read justice Sonia Sotomayor’s autobiography, but she talks about growing up in the projects in New York, she did very well in school. And somebody said, oh, you want to apply to this place called Princeton. She didn't know what an SAT was, didn't know what an Ivy League institution was. She gets to Princeton. And so, you know, she didn't think anything of it, like she didn't know to celebrate it. She gets there, and they're talking about the seven wonders of the world. And she realizes, most of the people in the class have been to the seven wonders of the world. And she said, I knew then that I had a deficit then I was always going to have to make up for that. That wealth or experience didn't afford me. But what she had and what she brings, has always brought to the law with her is her understanding of when the law doesn't apply to someone because of personal circumstance and without wealth or without being a member of the principal minority, majority, sorry. And so that's why I was struck by that. And I think to myself, one of the most storied Justices of the Supreme Court, you know, she can do it, we all can.
Alyssa:
Yeah, so I, you know, I think there's a really strong moral lesson here that I don't want to gloss over, which is we do make assumptions. We see somebody with a lot of letters after their name, or degrees or certificates and we make some really fundamental assumptions about them, that may or may not be true, but also may or may not impact our own confidence relative to what we've done, we can do, what they've done, what they could do. And, you know, I kind of always snicker a little bit, when I see all these honorary degrees being given to people who didn't do anything other than maybe they were famous, they got lucky, and they knew somebody, whatever, and they get a degree and I'm like, you know, you can't always make an assumption, just because you see, somebody has a, you know, a set of a set of letters, so to speak.
So, I guess, you know, in hindsight, you know, you put a lot of time and energy into all your degrees and all your certificates, and you have a very rich knowledge, you have a really amazing experience base, and none of that to be taken away. But you know, in hindsight, would you have done all those degrees? Would you use the time and money in a different way you think?
Jeanette:
Well, for me, without a doubt, I would pursue the path that I did. Because it was the acquisition of knowledge, skill and ability. It was, and look, I have the degrees hanging on my wall, I think I have them on my wall more for our kids to make sure they understood that's expected of them. I didn't need to do that for them. But it was, and my husband the same thing. It was showing them commitment to education, and to acquiring skills. But for me that I have done it differently, yes, what would I have done? I was grade obsessed. And so, I would frame my learning around making sure I could get the best grade possible, because my entire education was paid for by scholarship, undergraduate, Master's degree, doctorate. And so, you know, I couldn't be there unless I got the best grades. So, did I take those? You know, did I take organic chemistry? Nope, I didn't, because everybody said, oh, they give one A out of semester, oh, I'm not gonna I can't take that. So, for me, learning is now very personal. And I know how much richer the experience it can be when it is personalized. And I know what, why I'm doing it. And it may be just for the pleasure of learning something. Not that I'll even need to use it tomorrow. But it's amazing what will happen when you know that you might. It is education should always be additive, and it should fill your soul. Otherwise, don't do it.
Alyssa:
I love it. That is a very powerful note for us to kind of wrap up. But before we do that, I have to say that for whatever reason, the world brought us together and brought us together in a way that you literally walked up and said hello. And we started chatting, and I was like, this is the nicest person on the planet. And when I reached out and saw I was like, Oh my God, she's also one of the smartest first. I'm glad it happened in that way. Because my friendship, our friendship, the friendship that we've built together is so meaningful to me. And I want to thank you for sharing the wisdom and also the candor today with all the friends that we have out there listening to the podcast. So, thank you so much.
Jeanette:
I love you dearly and make sure we all learn something new every day.
Alyssa:
All right, thank you. I'm gonna leave it at that and we're gonna close down this podcast. So, before we completely wrap up, I want to let you know that full transcripts and show notes for this and other episodes can be found on the website, www.AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com/podcast. I also want to remind you once again, that the best way to get confidence for yourself is to give it to others and you can do it so easily just by liking and sharing this episode on your favorite social media channels. You can even give me some confidence fuel by sending in any comments about the topics I've covered, or ones you'd like me to consider for the future.
So, for now, this is Alyssa Dver, thank you for helping to bring more confidence to the world. This podcast was produced by Mindful Media. All rights reserved by Alyssa Dver and The American Confidence Institute. Music written and performed by Jeff Weinstein.
