EP 12: Real Confidence - Presenting Confidence with Special Guest Karen Donaldson
If you're smart and work hard and just aren’t who or where you want to be. Welcome to your podcast, Real Confidence. I'm your host Alyssa Dver and I'll be sharing a bit of brain science, some surprising social secrets, and a touch of tough love. Why? Because I believe confidence is everyone's fundamental choice. Let's get to it.
Alyssa:
Psych psych psych because, you know, 350, some odd coaches have come through the ACI certification program personally, train them myself and every now and then there's somebody that just like pops out as something extraordinary. Karen Donaldson went. I don't even know how many years Karen, you went through the program, but girlfriend, you have been somebody I have kept my eyeball on ever since.
And so here we get the pleasure of meeting you today in this grander scheme of the podcast. So, I'm going to toss you the proverbial bot and let you tell people what you do. And let's just get into this competence area of presentation stuff. So, what do you do for a living?
Karen:
I am so happy to be here but let me answer your question. I'm going to tell you a fancy name. So, I am Karen Donaldson, a celebrity communication body language and confidence coach. So, mine is all about the nice language. This is what I do. I support people and remind people that they were born with confidence, and I show them how to refine and reclaim their confidence so they can show up as the most powerful.
And confident version of themselves in any situation, in any setting. So, they can move from what's actually in their head and allow it to come out of their mouth because their voice is worthy, and their voice needs to be heard. So that's exactly what I do.
Alyssa:
You know, I get goosebumps just listening to your girlfriend. And now my audience is so like, this is why Alyssa picked you! There are a bazillion people out there. I know at least a bazillion myself, that teach presentation coaching. They don't all do with celebrities, needless to say, but everybody's got their take and they're all good in their own way. You have a really different approach to this. t's part of it just came through on what you said here. I think, you know, the answer to this question for this reason, like, what is it about speaking and presenting that just wigs people out? Like what is the reason?
Karen:
Good question. Here's the number one reason we have been inundated by the stat. That 77, 70% of, of the population, fear of public speaking, where they'd rather actually die than speak publicly. And I always call it out list. I'm going to say it. I hope you don't mind that’s bullshit. We’ve been groomed and encouraged to believe that this is how it should be for all of us and it's not necessarily true. And I'm, you know, we're all about self-belief and beliefs are simply a thought. You keep thinking over and over and over, or a message you keep hearing over and over and over and over again.
So, because we're inundated by this. People reiterate everywhere we go. We think it's true for us. And what happens is we're ingrained thinking that I should fear public speaking. So as soon as we walk into or someone says, can you speak up? Can you present? Can you lead the meeting? We go into this fight or flight mode. And when we go into that flight mode, our body goes into that freeze mode and there's a whole bunch of other things that happen in our brain and our stress hormones. But it's this massive stat that's been pushed around and people haven't really paused and asked themselves, you know, one question is this. Have I actually had a negative or a bad public speaking experience or is this someone else's story that I believe to be true for myself? And that's where it starts and stops.
Alyssa:
Yeah. I hear you. And you know, I often say to people that when you change the mindset from, they're not there to judge me, they're there to learn something. And I was asked to teach them or give them something. You know, hello. So, you know, one thing that I find fascinating, you work with some really smart people, some celebrity people, as you said, but these people that have been recognized as extras, and yet they're still wigged out by speaking. What, what is the thing that they tell you? Like they say they can't, or they don't want to, or are they, what are they fearing? What did they think they are fearing?
Karen:
Yeah, that's a really good question. I love this question because they're human just like us. So, they've put, been put up on this pedestal around us. And when I often are the one similar thing caross the board with, you know, the majority of them is that they are a bag of nerves before they speak, but they've either, either learned to mask it really well or step into something like an alter ego and they completely dissociate with how they show up, show up in real life with how they show up, you know, when they speak in front of a group, when they have to do a large meeting and they kind of put on a performance or act so they can defer any judgment that comes their way, they can brush it off because that wasn't truly me. That's just my stage presence. And if that whole faking piece, but you know, what I hear from them is that it's draining. Right. And they actually want to become more confident when they speak up, when they show up, when they speak in general, whether it's 2 people, 20 people, 200 people. And for some people I work with 20,000 or 2000 people, they want to feel comfy in their own skin more often, if not all the time.
Alyssa:
All right. So, we're going to hit the obvious question, which I get asked all the time, which is, can you fake it till you make it? And you kind of said sort of, not really me. And you know me well enough, like I'm like, you cannot fake it. People are going to know it, even if you're an Academy Award actress or actor, like they're going to see it through at some point, but you kind of said that they've kind of getting away with it, but it's draining. So, what is your fundamental belief? Can you fake it till you make it?
Karen:
I have the same answer as you. Yes, no, maybe, maybe kind of, not really, for a certain amount of time. I always say this. If you're putting our emphasis into faking it, you may as well put the same effort into learning how to show up and choosing how you show up because it's more energy too. There's more energy taken from a person when they fake it. Right. I know for myself and the clients that I work with, and you know, it's not only celebrities and C-suite executives. I work with everyday freaking amazing people, and I hold them at the same high status, whether it's a stay-at-home mom, mid manager employee, I don't care.
We're born amazing, but it's the same messaging, but for some people they give themselves a stage name or a stage kind of a moniker and it gives them that internal permission to just be and show up in a way that it doesn't matter how it's judged judge, as I was saying before. And, and that's how they fake it, but they're tired. As I shared, they're tired of turning it on and off, right. So, it's choosing or having a conversation and they have to say yes to wanting to do this as to stop taking the time and, turning this on and off. Right. And focusing on totally shifting it and choosing how they show up and really calling it out. How do you feel this situation? Where does what's the root of it and what are we going to do about it so you can shift. Right? And for some people, this whole fake confidence is I need to fake it because five years ago, two weeks ago, 25 years ago, I had this bad public speaking experience and they're literally living in it. So it depends on how someone comes to me around this whole faking it. You can't do it forever. You just can't do it forever.
Alyssa:
Well, not just forever. I love what you said. It's so true, but there are circumstances. So, I taught, I teach a lot of pitch training. It did one last week. And one of the things that I could see some eyeballs open, which is you can practice a pitch till you're blue in the face and it comes out perfectly right. Even a Ted talk for that matter, but in a pitch competition where most pitches fail, where people don't win is in the Q and A, because they haven't been able to practice it. They can't fake it. So, you know, I would say that. Even if you're a really good faker and you're willing to put the energy in, there's going to be some day that you're too tired, that your brain can't process fast enough that it's all of a sudden, you're going to crack, you know, there's going to be that opening where people are going to be like, oh, they're full of crap. And, or there's a circumstance or, you know, you get flustered for whatever reason, your computer fails or whatever. And I think that's where, you know, the truth, that's where that authenticity, all of a sudden shows up and people freak out because they're not prepared for it. So, let me ask you, you know, aside from somebody who's really polished and a professional actor or all that aside when you were coaching somebody who is come to you and said, like, I'm not a good speaker, or I don't like contributing in meetings, what's the telltale sign? Like what, what is it that tells them that, or shows up that really is the thing like, hey, don't do that.
Karen:
The first thing is that it's a really good question. The first thing is that they're literally outwardly saying, you know, I suck, I'm a crappy speaker. I'm going to mess up that whole self-deprecation and self-criticism that sets you up to go downhill. So that's something that has to be controlled when I see a speaker and they're ready to go on and they're all like, this is the only conversation. Think about this. You're just fueling your belief that you're going to mess up and you increase the likelihood of you messing up. So that's that outward piece when I'm watching someone and I see things, I always say, number one, make sure you're making eye contact with the people that you're speaking with and that can bring in a whole level of stress for people.
And I say, you know, depending on when you grow up, what era some people say, look at the top of people's heads looking between their eyes, look at their nose. And I always advise against that because it looks like you're looking at my nose. And then all of a sudden, the audience is insecure. You're you have a one-on-one meeting with your manager and you're looking in between their eyes and all of a sudden, they're touching their face. They're totally distracted. They didn't hear what you said and it's real. It sounds funny, but it's so real. It's so real. So, make the eye contact, right? Allow it to be casual as if you're speaking with a good friend. The other thing that I always tell people, and this comes down to body language, as you know, I do coach in that area as well.
When we fidget and we touch herself, like overly touch ourselves. So, we rubbed our legs. We continually rub our hands; we touch our neck. This is a telltale sign that someone's nervous. It's essentially a self-soothing gesture. Right. And the other thing that I want to make note of where people for people to be conscious of, to not showcase it is you either speak too fast. And, or your sentences are fused together. And what people see is that you want to rush through this. You want it to be over as soon as possible, and you cannot finish soon enough.
Alyssa:
That applies, not just to stage work. Of course, we, we kind of setting this up as people who are standing on stage, but this applies if you're in a meeting, if you're having a one-on-one right.
Karen:
Definitely, definitely. It can be with, you know, it can be with your, it could be in a social setting. Like we always talk about speaking as if it's this grandiose affair. We speak every day and that's what I pull out of people you speak every day. And when you speak, whether it's a meeting, you want to share your opinion. None’s looking for perfection. People just want to hear what you have to say. So we have to start taking that pressure off of ourselves and say, no, one's looking for this fabulous expert, you know, up there, especially nowadays people want people who are relatable. People just want to hear from people.
People want to hear that. I hear what, you know, what you've done, and I want you to support me so I can do it too. I wonder if that big gap between that whole us and them and, and you speaking at the front of the room or raising your hand and knowing it, all that doesn't cut it anymore. Oh, connecting with people more so than this perfection that we have in our head.
Alyssa:
Absolutely. Well, and I was even coaching somebody this morning and she was all paranoid about her virtual background. And I was like, oh, those are so passe. Like, like we want to see where you live. We want to see stuff on your walls and there is that authenticity, but I think it's also getting rid of all that Polish, all that practice, all that stuff that could be a fake. So, talk to me a little bit, you've been coaching and working with people for a while and have had more stories. I'm sure that will fuel many books to come, but any particular stories that you can share where like literally you flipped a switch for them in some mental cognitive way told them, the stuff that you just told us and magical things happen, what was the magical things that happen? I mean, it's amazing, right? What can change?
Karen:
Oh, it is. It is. And for me, and I'll share a story in a moment it's all around your mindset. I always ask people, it's a pause exercise, and I encourage anyone listening to do it as well. Quite often. We've never challenged what we believe to be true about ourselves as a speaker. And when I say speaker at my friends, forget about stage speaking up, speaking at a meeting, asking for time off from work, or maybe you are leading a meeting. often what we believe about ourself as a speaker, as negative, or as I shared driven by this statistic that we hear, and often it's not ours, we haven't chosen it.
So, I want you to pause and say, okay, what do I think of myself as a speaker? And if it's nothing supportive, you want to ask herself and identify, well, it's come from, oh my parents telling me I was a chatterbox and to be quiet all the time, it's actually the statistic because I've actually never spoken in front of a group. So do the pause, exercise, and just acknowledge if it's your story or not. And then there's your opportunity to choose what you want to say to yourself before you speak. So instead of the, I suck, you know, most people mess up when they speak. You change it and you shift it, and you choose it. And you're saying something more supportive. supportive, defined by you.
Right. You know, I know what I'm talking about. I'm going to share what I know and that's it. That's all I'm committing to. I just change that conversation because that will start to recreate Your current show is in belief, your supportive belief. Now the other thing that I want to share on it, it's a story more so, I want to lean into that. People connect with people. People actually connect with people when they make mistakes. Don't you lie in the essence. They want to hear from someone who's not perfect because the person listening on the other end, isn't perfect either. They want to know that you're human. So, I once went to work with a client and he was a manager and he had to speak in front of different groups and he actually hated it, but it was a part of his role.
And this is what he got paid to do. So, to pay the mortgage, he had to fulfill on his role. But nonetheless, his perception was that people were judging him. Because he made more money than them as a manager and he didn't know how to connect. And he always wanted a perfect presentation, and he was one of those people who memorized it. And I always advise against memorizing. You want to know core concepts, but I advise against memorizing. Nonetheless, we let go of all the previous public speaking coaching he received. And I said, let's have you show up as a human being. Sounds funny. And I asked him like, who is in your audience? How can you connect better with who's in your audience?
And he said, you know, I have a lot of parents. I know people have a lot of kids, almost all of my staff has kids they're around my age, but they don't know that I have kids. And like, well, why wouldn't they know that? He's like, well, there's never an opportunity to talk about it. And I said, well, that's a connection point! When we can find connection points where we can show we're just alike that will allow people who are listening to take down the barrier. And that actually takes down your stress as well because you're just talking about yourself. So, the way he started his presentations in front of sometimes it was two people and sometimes it was 200. He felt the same way. Right? Just as nervous either way was just connecting as a human being.
He literally asked the question, he's like, who here has kids, all of a sudden, you know, 90% of the audience raise their hand. Now, all of a sudden there's a synergy, there's a connectedness. And then he talked about having a teenager who, and for him, he was having teenager problems and, you know, the kids saying whatever and closing the room door before he was finished speaking. And he shared an experience and the whole audience laughed and they loved it because their teenager just did it last week, yesterday or today as well. And then all of a sudden, the barrier went down, his stress level went down and then he could go in, and he literally called it out. I just want to shoot us information because it will help us work together and move X, Y, Z together.
So just connecting as a human being, let go of being perfect and know that I will say this as well, go in knowing that you'll make mistakes, don't try, and avoid them because that adds another layer of stress. Just say to yourself, mistakes are okay. I speak all the time online, you know, media, whatever I stutter sometimes, but it doesn't matter because I've said to myself, it doesn't matter because the content that I’m sharing will help someone up there. So, I started, I have fun with it.
Alyssa:
I love, I just love your energy. It just, it it's fantastic. And you know, I think part of it is that energy that you bring is that it in a cell, you could be saying anything. Energy is confident, you know, for me, One of the turning points. As I started doing a lot of public speaking about a hundred years ago was taking the idea that it's not nerves and anxiousness, but excitement and energy and, you know, neurologically speaking, they are the same. It does depend on how you want to view it. And so going onstage is that excitement to share what I have to say that I've been asked and honored with that opportunity and just changing that mindset. So that was one of my biggest kind of like “aha’s” as a speaker changed my game. Any particular one, that's just changed your game. You know, you speak all the time, like you said, what, what's the magic for you?
Karen:
Oh, I'm going to be fully honest. Yes. I want to let you know what happens to me before I speak all the time. Even if I do a sit-down virtual interview for TV or something, I similar to you and I get butterflies in my stomach. And I start to sweat. I'm, I'm sharing too much information, but I love you all. I slept under my arms and down my back, I could be sitting here doing nothing. And for most people they want to reduce or remove that feeling. I need that feeling because I've reframed similar to you, that nervous feeling that people call nervous that tells me I'm ready.
So, when I feel the butterflies, yes, I feel it every single time and that sweat starts to drip down my back, in my head, I'm saying I'm ready. All right let's go. I'm ready. Where some people, most people have been just groomed to internalize that is bad as you said, as nervousness. So, what if we're supposed to feel this way before we present? Right. And that's my self-talk. Yep. Karen you're ready. You're sweating. That's what it means. We're ready for them to know. And I'll tell you one more secret. One of the reasons I wear black, I perform when I speak, I wear black, and I often wear dresses it's so you can't see my sweat spots.
Alyssa:
Let them see the sweat. That's what I was told. Right. You know, anyway, I love that. I love that. I love it. I love it. I love it. You know we could talk forever. We're kind of at our home stretch here. And I, you know, I just got to kind of ask you this personally, you know, you are a force, like I said, in the beginning, like a standout force. You have come into this world with this gift, and you know, what is the one thing, you know, we're going to put contact information for people to reach you and all, but like give them a gem today. Something that they can do right now to be more like you. Confident, beautiful, energetic presenter, extraordinary, anything that they can do, right now.
Karen:
I would say this, I would say don't try and be like me. I would say, really choose how you want to show up and put your focus on how you want to show up and stop putting your focus on all the things that could happen and how you don't want to show up. Because quite often, when we talk about it, it's we talk about everything that could go wrong and everything that we don't want to happen.
Once we make that switch and we start the conversation with, I've got this. I know what I'm talking about. I'm excited. I can't wait to share these three things. That's what will happen for us. So lay off of that self-criticism, lay off of, it's not going to work, lay off I'm off of I'm nervous and choose.
And that's important word here. It's not going to happen to you. You have to choose it and it will take a bit of time. But it's the choice that matters. And every time that negativity shows up, you're going to choose it again and last, but not least the human people want you all your quirks, small risks. I don't care. Just have fun with it and be human and connect with people. And you can't fail when you're just being yourself.
Alyssa:
You know, I tossed you that bone. It wasn't intentional, but like in my next life, I am coming back as Karen Donaldson just say it, but your answer. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And anyone who's listening, you know, now why I pick this amazing human being to be on this podcast because you know it is hard not to look at somebody is beautiful and spectacular as you and be like, oh, I suck. But you know what? The genuineness that you shared today. Thank you for everybody. Thank you for everybody.
Karen:
It was such an honor. And you're so welcome. And anytime.
Alyssa:
That's going to wrap up this episode. I hope you found it helpful, and it's so please like or share the podcast on whatever channel you're listening to now, because you know, that getting confidence the best way is to give it to others. So thank you for doing it. You can send a little confidence my way with your feedback, any topics you'd like to hear in the future? Best way to reach me is [email protected], So for now this is Alyssa Dver, and again, thank you for bringing confidence to the world.
This podcast was produced by Mindful Media. All right reserved by Alyssa Dver and the American Conference Institute. Music written and performed by Jeff Weinstein.
