EP 10: Real Confidence - How to Confidently Support Gender Identity & Change with Special Guest John Grosshandler
If you're smart and work hard but just aren't where or who you want to be welcome to your podcast, Real Confidence. I'm your host, Alyssa Dver, and I'll be sharing a bit of brain science, some surprising social secrets, and a touch of tough love. Why? Because I believe confidence is everyone's fundamental right and choice. Let's get to it.
Alyssa Dver:
You know, there are certain topics that I feel are not only my responsibility to bring forward, but that I want to learn myself. So today we are going to delve in an area that I think makes a lot of people uncomfortable for no other reason. They don't have the right words; they don't understand it. And at the same time, it is one of the pinnacle areas that personally, I want to be able to give more people confidence. And that is in this conversation around gender, gender fluidity, gender transformation. And I've been gifted with getting to know this person that I'm going to interview, John Grosshandler. Thank you so much for being here.
John Handler:
Thank you. Alyssa, so great to be here.
Alyssa Dver:
Now, let's just start at some of the basics, John. People are going to read your bio as it's posted, but you started this amazing program, the Gender Cool Project. And so, can you give us an idea of first what it is and then second, how it happened?
John Grosshandler:
Absolutely, so I'll start with what it is, so the Gender Cool Project is a non-profit, we're about four years old and our mission is to replace people's misinformed opinions with real positive experiences, meaning transgender, nonbinary youth who are thriving. And by doing that, we know that we're changing and saving lives. And it started out as a storytelling mission, but it's really turned into a movement reaching one hundred and hundreds of thousands of people internationally and getting a lot of media coverage. And it's super exciting. And shall I share the background story that led us to start this nonprofit, Alyssa?
Alyssa Dver:
Absolutely. And please mention also that this is a passion project for you. This is on top of your, as we say in the ERG business, day job, right?
John Grosshandler:
Exactly. So, my day job is with a great software company out of California called VMware. I've actually been there 10 or so years and I love it. And yet it's certainly not a passion project, but the gender cool project is and the confidence that it's given me to be able to blend my passion project and my day job has been really one of the most rewarding things, not only in my life, but in that of my family and the many lives that we're touching. So, it's super, super important and I've been on a real journey. And as it relates to the background story for Gender Cool, Alyssa. If you had asked me five years ago, I would have said that my beautiful, wonderful wife, Jennifer, and I were the proud parents of four kids and not only four kids, but four boys, and we had our youngest really swinging the other direction.
She was all about the girl stuff. She was the girl colors and the girl BFFs and the girl websites, and we thought we actually had a sweet little gay boy on our hands, which we were totally good with because my wife and I are super liberal, and we were ready for that. But what we weren't ready for is when our turns out our daughter was nine, she came to us with tears in her eyes, which was unusual because she was such a happy-go-lucky kid. And she said, mommy and daddy, what if I'm not just a boy who likes girl things? What if I'm a girl? Because I am. I'm a girl. Will you love me? Will my brothers love me? Will my friends love me? And that led to the creation of the Gender Cool Project.
Alyssa Dver:
Oh, you know, I have goosebumps just hearing your story and I say goosebumps because I have many friends. In fact, about 20 years ago, a friend of mine at the time, daughter transitioned to male, and they were in People magazine. They were a big cover story, and it was like kind of breaking at that time. And you and I talked about when your child comes to you, it's hard. It's hard, really hard when your kind of one of the first right to deal with it, you have nobody to look around. And here's the gender cool project that not only is helping the youth, but I think you also are saying to other parents like that it's not so unusual. It's not so weird. And by the way, it's actually a beautiful, wonderful thing. So, give us an idea of, you know, from that moment, then you decided to start this program and what's the program really about?
John Grosshandler:
Well, you know, knowing the sort of mission of the American Confidence Institute, I'm reminded of that moment when our daughter came to my wife and me because while we knew that the right answer was to be supportive, we actually didn't have confidence on how best to support her because we never actually met somebody who was transgender. So, we went to the internet. And unfortunately, what we found at that time on the internet was really very sensational and often inaccurate negative information about what it meant to be a transgender young person, especially in this country, and tales of depression and suicide and bullying and military bans and bathroom bills. And we're like, OK, well, that's kind of scary. And so, we dug deeper. We surrounded ourselves with experts, we read books and we built the confidence through the knowledge that if we were sort of educated and supportive of our child's gender identity, that that would lead to the best outcomes. And that's what led us to Gender Cool, because if we were only finding negative information on the internet, then then all the other parents whose kid came out to them were only finding negative information and out of fear or ignorance. They might not support that child's gender identity, and we know that that ends very badly. So, we launched Gender Cool four years ago to put out examples of how extraordinary outcomes will happen if parents are supportive of their children.
So, we identified initially five young people ages 12 to 17. We call them our champions. We're now up to 18 of them. They're diverse in every way, including racially 40 percent of them are people of color. These kids, Alyssa, are so incredible. They were incredible before we ever met them. But once we meet them, we sort of put them through media training and help them build their confidence through storytelling and owning their story and knowing that if they share that story with Gender Cool’s help, they'll help other kids, and their parents have the confidence to live their true, authentic selves. And we do a lot of work, including with corporations. We have 15 partners ranging from Nike to Bank of America to Intel, etc. and we do a variety of programming events with them virtual events, reverse mentorships. We released a book series. And lastly, I'll say that it really is a storytelling campaign, and my wife and the team have extraordinary sort of marketing expertise and reach. And so just in June, for example, we are on the Today show twice with these champions. We're in USA Today three times, including on the front page. Gender champion Ashton met with, introduced and hugged President Biden at the White House. So, it's been a great ride.
Alyssa Dver:
So excited. You know what? What an honor to be talking to you and all the great work you do, and I'm so, so excited. You know, you mentioned fear and ignorance. Two wonderful words that unfortunately get in the way of a lot of people's confidences, and they wind up stealing it from other people to make up for it. So, you know, as another example, in my own life, a very good friend of mine, one of my best friends, PhD level psychologists, doesn't matter how smart you are, how much you know your child, you know, I think there is that moment of I didn't know them. I didn't foresee this or, you know, talk to me a little bit about how parents, let's focus on parents for the moment. You know that kick to their confidence, you know, do you hear that a lot that parents are like kicking themselves, going? I should have known; I didn't know or I'm stupid and I that's that confidence like.
John Grosshandler:
No, I do hear that a lot, and I experienced it myself. I thought I knew a lot about parenting by the time our child came out to us as transgender, I'd had four kids and each of them are so unique and brought us on our own journey. But we thought we knew a lot, but we certainly weren't prepared for this in our daughter's case. It wasn't a huge surprise because she was so open with her sort of gender fluidity and her desire for girly things. And as I mentioned, we thought we had a sort of effeminate gay boy on our hands, which were totally good with because that was the context for which we would fit that behavior into. And like I said, we'd never met anyone who was transgender.
So, fear and ignorance are not bad things. They're a natural state that we all sort of have. And the question, I guess, is once you get presented with that new data, in this case, our daughter telling us who she really was is what do you do with that fear and ignorance? Do you shy away? Do you go in a corner? Do you go through the four stages of grief and ignore it? Or do you say, wow, I need to learn about this and realize the stakes are high based on how I handle it and embrace it as part of the learning journey and your child's journey? And that's what I counsel to the hundreds of other parents that I end up speaking with.
And while it is scary and often it doesn't end perfectly like most kids’ lives, none of them are perfect. If you embrace the journey and the wonderfulness of what comes when a child gains the confidence from being their true authentic self and being supported not only from their family, but from their community and their school. It's actually been one of the greatest blessings in my life and my family's life to see our daughter and to see her confidence grow. She was always a fairly confident kid and fairly outgoing, but when she socially transitioned, which is what she's done and became the true incredible girl that she is, by the way, she's 15 now. She's a sophomore. She is absolutely extraordinary. She came out on national TV when she was, I think, 11 in front of three million viewers on the Today Show, and it's just been one event after another for her to build her confidence by sharing her story. Her passion is volunteering and advocacy, and it really is a blessing once embraced and for other stories. Besides just my daughter, folks, just to go to gendercool.org and it will make their day.
Alyssa Dver:
Yeah, it makes more than a day. It makes a month a year, possibly a lifetime. When you get to see the joy and the freedom and the just that that you can see in the eyes of everyone who talks. And I love the fact that you're sharing these stories. So, you know, maybe other than your daughter can you share a little bit of maybe before and after some of the people that have had that experience as well?
John Grosshandler:
And while there's plenty of sad stories for a variety of reasons, even we’ll try. The vast majority of the stories are incredibly positive. And so, when I speak with people, the fact that they're reaching out to me, they're sort of self-selecting that they're trying to learn more and that they're supportive. And so, for that self-selected group, often just speaking with me and learning the stories of our champions and how positive it can turn out, you can hear the relief in their voice. You can hear the confidence growing that they just have to be a loving parent. And if they focus on what they've always focused on, which is whatever it takes to support the mental and physical health of their child, and that they just need to get educated, that everything is going to be fine, they're like, oh my gosh, this is so impactful- thank you so much. And we point them to resources beyond just Gender Cool. There are many books on the topic, other great groups, other great nonprofits. We point them to how to get school policy changed, how to get government documents changed, how to get physical and mental therapists. We point them to birds of a feather, both for the kids and the parents to see that they're not the only ones. And like I said, it's become my life's work with my wife and the rest of the Gender Cool team because of how we're empowering these parents and their kids to live the best lives possible.
Alyssa Dver:
Well, we're going to take a very quick break so we can give sponsor love out, but I have two burning questions that I'm going to ask you when we come back. And the first one is, you know what, as a parent, you know, express what is a normal set of, or if there is such a thing of feelings and actions that anyone who has just been told or will soon be told that their child is transitioning or otherwise announcing a change in gender, I want to kind of get nuts and bolts on that a little bit, John, because you mentioned so much in that last answer. Let's just get some real specifics for people. And my second question is, if you have a friend like I do and I think more and more, we're going to hear about friends and family, friends, kids and so forth. How do we support other people going through that? Because my kids have not had that experience, but my friends have. And so, I would love to get some advice on the right words and the right actions to take to support other parents going through it. So, we're going to be right back.
This podcast is sponsored by the ERG Leadership Alliance. ELA is making workplace diversity and inclusion a reality by equipping leaders with the knowledge and tools to run effective employee groups. You can learn more about ELA’s many events, training, and tools at www.ERGLeadershipAlliance.com.
Alyssa Dver:
All right, continuing this incredibly important inspiring conversation with my incredible guest here, John Grosshandler. Again, I'm so grateful for you being here. Let's go into some details. Your child either has just come to you or you suspect will and you're in that parental state of fear and ignorance or both. And you know, I guess my question is like, what should you do? How should you feel? What should you do?
John Grosshandler:
Well, I think it's important for me to say that that we have great privilege. We live in a blue town and a blue state. We were not worrying about making the mortgage. We're able to pay for top medical and therapy and we have access to things. So, I don't want to be dismissive of how different other people's situations might be when their child comes out, including, for example, here we are in the United States, Alyssa, and there's many countries where it's literally illegal and the government might put you in jail for being trans or non-binary. So, I just wanted to say that my experience is my own. And while I've had, you know, hundreds of conversations with others and there's a lot of recurring themes that I am certainly sensitive, including cultural and religious sort of overlays that that might make this seem even more complicated. But it's sort of basic level. It's super simple, which is almost all parents love their kids, and almost all parents want their kids to thrive and be happy and healthy. And so, it's only the fear and ignorance that would get in the way of the parent doing the right thing for their child when the child comes out and that right thing studies have shown every medical organization has shown that the right thing to do for that child is to affirm them in their identity.
And people talk about, oh, it's just a phase. Or maybe they're confused, and I won't get too deep into it. But if that child's commentary around their gender identity is insistent, persistent, and consistent, then that is really telling you that there's something here in and right first step is to embrace that child and thank them. And, by the way, feel great about yourself because if your child comes out to you, that means that you've already done more than half the job. You've given that child the space to know that they can tell you anything and that you're going to love them unconditionally. And so, you've done half the battle when they come out to you. And then if they do come out to you advice, I would give the folks, as is the fear and ignorance is normal, but just lead with love and the rest will follow
Alyssa Dver:
Lead with love. Oh, trademark that, my friend. That's beautiful and so profound. You know this whole issue of letting your child know that they are accepted, that they belong, that they matter, and while their gender matters in the context, whatever is their gender is the right gender, whatever they decide, whatever they need is the right thing for them, right? That's the core of it. But it's not that easy, obviously, for everybody to understand and support that. So, thank you for your words of lead with love. You know, do some research, real research don't just look up on the internet, obviously, for what the reasons you said before, and there's a lot of misinformation and negative information. So, find the groups. Log on to the website. You know, we're going to post everything in our show notes so people can find you and get all those juicy resources of the birds of a fellow group and everything that you mentioned. But I mentioned before we take our sponsor break, I need some help, and I suspect others, if they don't need it now, might need it in the future, which is how do you support a family that's not your own in this case? And yes, lead from love still. But like, give me some tips maybe on how you know you have a friend, a friend who's going through this with their children. Any advice on that?
John Grosshandler:
Sure. Well, Gender Cool, not to be self-advocating, exists for exactly that scenario. So, if you're a parent or relative or a neighbor or friend and you hear of a family or a friend who has anyone in their life who is indicating they're transgender or they're nonbinary, or they're just not quite sure gender cool.org exists for that situation. So that's a bit of a plug. But it's the reason that we exist, and we spent four years refining what content is there, and there's all sorts of resources.
But the other thing I would say, and it's an important thing to note for your audience, I would say Alyssa this is very much a generational thing. So, it's mainly older folks who don't really get this. If you talk to young people, they're like, what's the big deal? And duh. And so, for example, there was a recent broad study that showed that one sixth of Gen Z identifies as LGBTQ plus. And so, for young kids, this is not an issue, and it's just the older people generally who really struggle with it. And so, this will. So, for all those folks over, let's say, 40 or so for whom this is hard to get your arms around, that is understandable. It is hard to get your arms around. But once you research it and meet these young kids, whether it's the Gender Cool champions or the kid down the block, what you're going to see are the leaders of tomorrow, for whom this is not such a big deal. Just like being gay is no longer a big deal. Now that so many people have met their gay neighbors. As people meet more and more of transgender and non-binary people, they're going to realize this is not a big deal and everyone is different and special.
Alyssa Dver:
Oh gosh, I hope that's true sooner than soon. That would make this a much easier world to live in for all of us. Yes. So, you know, in kind of bringing this interview, which I could talk to you forever and, you know, I really hope that people who are listening here understand that, you know, oftentimes myself, for that matter and other people that I work with where, you know, the challenges that the confidence challenges that we face. If you step back, you look at and you're like, really, you're getting upset about that. And then I talk to somebody like you with these kids that are going through something that, you know, I don't think everyone has the courage to do. They're very courageous, they're very brave and they're very wonderful and the parents that support them equally. So, because I know that it's not easy today. I hope you're right, John. I hope in the future it gets a lot easier. But I guess, you know, other than just logging on to the website, of course, and getting all the resources, you know, you went through this as a parent, you went through this as an educator as well. What do you wish you knew back then that would really have made it a little bit easier to get through?
John Grosshandler:
Well, again, circling back to confidence, there's this phrase that many of us know that information is power and its information and open mindedness that can break down fear and ignorance. And I wish that I would have been more familiar with the transgender topic before my daughter came out to us, because then that that period of fear and ignorance that first gripped me when I went to the internet to find out what it meant to raise a transgender child would have been shortened. And it was it was not terrible for me because I had access to these resources, and I sort of came to the conversation as a liberal, open-minded person. But for a lot of the people out there who don't have the advantages or the context that I had, it can be very frightening. Just yesterday, I had a father call me almost crying on the phone. I had never met him, and he was saying that his child was going through their sort of transition, and they'd gotten my name, and he was hoping that I would speak with him and that they're now on a great spot. But I feel bad for folks who have to have that period of fear and ignorance and not realize the resources that will help them bust through that. So, if I had one thing that I could have had be different, it would have been if I had met some of these champions before my daughter came out to us.
Alyssa Dver:
Wonderful. So, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for all the people that you are not just supporting, but you're probably saving. And I mean that from every cell in my body that I think, you know, my mantra, as my followers know, is giving confidence is the greatest superpower. Man, you are a superhero and then some. So, thank you.
John Grosshandler:
Well, thank you, Alyssa and again. Props to the Gender Cool team, including my co-founders Jennifer Grosshandler and Garrett Goldstein. They deserve most of the credit, but mainly the champions these young people, and thanks for elevating their voice here today.
Alyssa Dver:
With pleasure.
So, before we completely wrap up, I want to let you know that full transcripts and show notes for this and other episodes can be found on the website. www.American Confidence Institute.com/Podcast. I also want to remind you once again that the best way to get confidence for yourself is to give it to others, and you can do it so easily just by liking and sharing this episode on your favorite social media channels. You can even give me some confidence fuel by sending in any comments about the topics I've covered or ones you'd like me to consider for the future. So, for now, this is Alyssa Dver. Thank you for helping to bring more confidence to the world.
This podcast was produced by Mindful Media. All rights reserved by Alyssa Dver and the American Confidence Institute. Music written and performed by Jeff Weinstein.
