EP 140
Welcome, fellow confidence crusaders, neuro nerds, and success equalizers. This is your podcast, Real Confidence. I'm your host Alyssa Dver, and I'll be sharing a bit of basic brain science, some surprising social secrets, and a touch of tough love. Why? Because I believe confidence is everyone's fundamental right and choice. So let's get to it.
Alyssa:
I'm already having fun talking to today's guest. I can't wait for you to hear him. His name is Cedric Bertelli. He is based in the west coast of the U.S. but from his name, you can tell there's a little French history. There's a little Italian, and I learned also some Spanish history. And we have been jamming about not only today's topic, which is going to be fantastically useful for everyone I know, and how to manage some dysregulated emotions, things that keep coming back as a result of maybe past trauma or experiences. So we're going to get into that. But Cedric, I love the fact that you came out of the restaurant space because I have a son and lots of friends that are in it, and so perhaps maybe this is what kind of got you on the path. But maybe explain a little bit how you ended up in this space and what you do today relative to helping people manage extreme anxiety.
Cedric Bertelli:
Thank you, Alyssa, and thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Well, I I was born in a tiny village in south of France where 80 people, and I followed you know regular education. And at 14 years old, I discovered that school wasn't for me, you know, regular academic I would say, and I decided to go to culinary school, as you mentioned, and that was the the beginning of my first career. Start working in the kitchen and study hospitality management. And my last internship was in Burlington, Vermont, which gave me an opportunity to later apply for the Ritz Carlton Half Moon Bay in California. And this is where I did most of my career with the Ritz Carlton in the U.S. and in Portugal, and as you mentioned, I worked in the kitchen for many years, and then in the restaurant, I shifted in the restaurant in about I think it probably 2003 and I started being first a server with a broken English in the U.S. My English was even worse than today, so they put me first as a busboy, and then a host, and then a server, and finally I was a restaurant manager, bar director, banquet director, and at the end of my career with the Ritz, I was a director of restaurants.
And then I shifted. I shifted my career in 2008 2009 I quit my job and went back to study in France to study what I'm doing now. And and you're right. Working in restaurants and and kitchen was definitely a a big influence in me changing you know changing career and and deciding to do something else. We were talking right before this being on air about the level of anxiety there is in the kitchen, and the screaming and the pressure, which is absolutely ridiculous, and nonsensical, but yes, you are exposed to a lot of tension in restaurant and in the kitchen. And what shifted, I think, what was the big three things were were big points for me to shift my career.
The first one was a lot of anxiety that I was feeling personally as as a person, a lot of anxiety, a lot of self-directed anger that I was managing quite well with alcohol, working in restaurants and the kitchen was always available. And I don't think I was an alcoholic. Maybe I was. I don't know. But definitely after the service, when you you come home at two a.m. and you're, you know, very excited, very up high, you know, having few glasses of wine help, and then the next morning you're back at work at seven a.m. and you drink four espressos and and you're back at it and etc. etc. You know what I'm talking about because your son, I'm sure, is having a taste of that, and that's not healthy.
So it wasn't healthy for me. I'm not talking about your son. It wasn't healthy for me. I did not have an healthy lifestyle, but nobody knew, right? Nobody knew. I was very good at at hiding the anxiety, at hiding everything, and I was quite charming and always in a good mood. But inside, it was a storm, you know, on a daily basis. The anxiety, etc. So that was definitely a search to feel better, and not finding it through psychotherapy or workshops. I mean, California, as you mentioned, so we have all the self development workshop that you want here, right? You can run naked around a fire, beat up some.pillows and scream. It was all good and fun, and in the moment it feels good, but it never resolved anything. It was allowing me to manage stuff, and that's when the second pillar of my change came, which is my grandfather. My grandfather's name was Riccardo Bertelli. He was a resistance fighter during World War Two in Italy, and after the war, moved to France. And when he moved to France, he had nothing, right? He went through war. He brought his family there, and I was always fascinated how men of his generation were about were able to be resilient without any type of help, right? He didn't have any psychotherapy.
No, how most men that I knew from his generation were able to type to tap tap tap into some kind of resilience, and I'm not going to go for a long time into that. But what I understood over the time is over time is like they were able to to to to be reborn, so to speak, socially through working together. Men in this case with a similar history, similar background, working outside in nature, and with a strong purpose, which was well, we have nothing, so we have to bring ourselves to a social level that allow our family to be better. So working in in with common history outside together with a purpose was able to create resilience. That that was very important to me as I developed my practice. And the third pillar that made me change my career was in my last job at the Ritz. I had a very large, very large team. I had about 250 people to manage, and when you manage people like this, you see that you don't manage people. You manage their emotions, right? Everybody come into an ecosystem.
In this case, it was a hotel, a restaurant, but in this ecosystem, they all bring their own ecosystem. What happened at home, family dynamics, health problems, and and it's it's hotels are fantastic for that. They're a bit like boats, you know. You're stuck there. No one can go anywhere, and it's like magic or disaster happens, you know. But you you manage people's emotion, and that was fascinating to me. You know, taking the time to know people, having an understanding of of what's happening a little bit in their life, so you put them in position where they thrive and actually excited to come to work, where work become as much as possible a breath of fresh air for them compared to whatever is happening at home. Sometimes, you know, creating an ecosystem that is healthy for them. What I didn't have, basically working early on in in restaurant. So all this was kind of like in the pot. And I apologize to be a bit long for me to shift career. Yeah.
Alyssa:
Wow. Wow. Well, so there's a lot you just covered. I want to go back a little bit because you had also said before we turned on the record that working in a restaurant, you know, knives thrown at you and all kinds of trauma, and your wife being a surgeon is that apparently it's as traumatic and you know kind of emotionally charged. And I I don't want people who are listening that have a quote corporate job to think you have to have a job like those to be rocked, you know, to be in a place where you have a toxic boss who is just you know under undermining you or whatever it is that's going to be equally traumatic and emotionally stressful for people. You know, I think that no matter what you do for a living and no matter what family you come from, there are always these situations which will will unnerve you, and we'll talk a little bit about how to renerve. I know later, you know, kind of rebuild those pathways. But for whatever reason that you got that trauma, it's all real for that.So I think I found that interesting. That comparison to surgery and the thing. Now, luckily, my son is actually a brewer now, so his stress level is a little bit better than the actual restaurant. But yeah, no, it's amazing, and we're all you know in the U.S. actually with the show Bear, I think we're a little bit more aware of what's reality in a lot of these restaurants. But suffice to say, now you are helping people with these situations, and let's get really specific on what's happening to them. Like, is you said that it's a reoccurring dysfunctional, debilitating emotional pattern. So, what are the symptoms that somebody might have that going on?
Cedric Bertelli:
Yes, 2019 we opened the Emotional Health Institute, and what we do is we created this modality called EMRES or emotional resolution emotional resolution, and what it does is resolving those emotion that keeps on coming back. You know those anxieties. You sit in front of your computer in the morning and you feel anxious. Those fears, fears that block you to do things that you want to do in your life, or you knew will be good in your life. For example, you're in a relationship, and you know the relationship is toxic, where there's too much fears into leaving the relationship. I mean, as you said, Alyssa, any emotion that keeps on coming back. And I often say, emotional resolution is here to resolve emotional difficulties that are not congruent with your current realities, current reality. That means all those emotions that maybe have been following us for years: the depression, the fears, etc. Or emotions that have been shifted within the last couple of years or last year. And again, it's like we cannot we cannot move past them. We can manage them, maybe with alcohol, maybe with yoga, with meditation, with essential oil, with you name it. We can manage, but they keep on coming back. And emotional resolution is not about managing the emotions; it's about resolving them. That means an emotion that you know is not serving you, is not informing you, but it is overwhelming you. It can be resolved,
Alyssa:
And you said preventing you from doing something that you want to do. So maybe it's interrupting sleep, right? Maybe it is like you said, interrupting a relationship or the conclusion of a relationship, what are some of the other things that again people should look for to say? Oh, that's happening to me. They may not feel that emotion because they're self-medicating for whatever in whatever way. But what are some of the things that they should look for to say? Oh, I have a debilitating emotional pattern here. Like, what other things do you see or hear?
Cedric Bertelli:
I think it depends for everybody. And the way that I would say is, how can I express that? It's a good question, because often we feel we feel a certain way for so many years that we don't question it, right? We feel we feel blocked. We feel whatever it is for so many years that we do not question it.
Alyssa:
I know that in some cases people may, you know, they get extremely nervous, panic attacks, right? That's certainly like kind of almost an extreme symptom. I have somebody in my family right now. She says I can't breathe some days. I go, what do you mean? She says, you know, like literally my chest is locked. I can't breathe. I'm like, that's really serious, right? Physiologically, nothing wrong with her. It's all an emotional competing pattern, right?
Cedric Bertelli:
That's right. That's right.
Alyssa:
So you know, and I think there's a lot of people would use the word "I'm stuck" or "I am can't get out of my own head. You know, there's a lot of euphemisms that we use to say, you know, there's something happening in my head, in my psychology, that's not allowing me to do something or to get past a behavior. In this case, you know, not breathing or not, you know, dealing with it for that matter. So it could manifest in a lot of ways, is what you're saying, and it depends on the person.
Cedric Bertelli:
Yes, correct. I think for me, it in what I observe, it expressed in three ways, right? In three levels: the conscious level, which is, for example, your friend, which is I can't breathe. I'm so anxious, or I'm angry all the time, or often angry. So this is what I call the conscious emotions, and this is most of the time what people come to see us. People come to see us for conscious emotions, emotion that they realize are impacting negatively their life. So that's kind of like the entrance door for people who come to see us.
Then there is the unconscious emotions. The unconscious emotions are more difficult to to pinpoint because they often do not match the person that we want to be in life. They often do not match the person that we want others to see. So these are like the shame, the guilt, the not good enough, the voice in the background say, "I'm not a good girl. I'm not a good boy.” Things that come from a very a very long time ago, and sometimes we build ourselves against those voices, but if you build yourself against those voices, you're never really yourself. So these are the unconscious emotion, and then there are the subconscious emotion.
The subconscious emotions are emotions that are not strong enough to be conceptualized. Basically, they're tension, and those tension that we do not name, so to speak, we call them tensions. We call them mood. In a way, they are the one who create most of the dynamics of our life. For example, if I meet you, we never met, but there is something about you that my brain recognizes. Maybe it's the shape of your body, the color of your eyes, the tone of your voice-something that has absolutely nothing to do with you. But if my brain recognizes that into something that was present, into a past trauma, that's going to create tension in me, and and this tension I'm going to feel again. That's nothing to do with you as a person. I'm going to feel them. I'm going to make up a story about them. I'm going to say, Alyssa, I don't know about her. And chances are we're never going to have a friendship. So these are more subconscious. So to answer your question, I had a hard time, and this because it's it's it depends on everybody. Some of us recognize the emotional difficulties that we that we that we we facing. Some of us build ourselves thinking those difficulties are our personality. What I would say is always question if you don't feel free in a situation. If you don't feel free in a situation. If you don't feel like yourself in a situation. If you feel like you have to deal in a situation through anger in order to survive it or to master it, question it and try to do a resolution.
Alyssa:
Yeah, love that. Love that. Very much aligned in everything that I do with in the Institute and subsequently we study and and I'm going to add to that there's a lot of physiological symptoms too. So I'm a fundamental believer that any kind of tension in your neck, your back, your legs, your arms, anywhere there's tension, that is a manifestation, it's a signal. And I always say people, that's your body telling you pay attention. There's something that is not being regulated in your head. The stomach. How many times have people come to you and said, you know, I have, you know, reflux or I have all this, and and it's because they're, you know, that's where it's manifesting for them, and it's all connected neurologically, but also right directly. There's a pipe to your head, so, you know, I think in a lot of cases people are not necessarily in denial. They may just not be aware, and at the same time, it's easier to blame the body or the environment and not, you know, resolving what's actually going on in your own head. Right.
Cedric Bertelli:
That's right. Blaming the past. You know, blaming the past is often not allowing us to take responsibility. Often tell my clients we cannot fix the past. People come for trauma healing. We cannot heal trauma. Trauma happen. All we can do is is heal the wounds that trauma created. Whatever is happening to you today, this can be resolved so that your present become your past.
Alyssa:
That's right.
Cedric Bertelli:
But it's a if you let your past still overwhelm your action or your thought, the past still has power over you. Then you decide you want to leave your power to your past and live passively, or you and it's not easy to do, you take responsibility for the way you feel today, that doesn't give any excuse to what might have happened to you. That doesn't take off any of the value of the suffering that you had. You just take back your power. You don't let your past, whatever happened to you, that you know it or not, because you don't have to know what happened to you in order to resolve what you feel today. You don't have to know if you had a trauma or not. It's irrelevant. What matters is that you recognize that today you're not feeling well, you're not feeling content. There is moments where you you feel tensions, just etc. Resolve that. This you can resolve.
Alyssa:
Amen. I don't know what else to say there. I love it. You know, so it's interesting because when you filled in the form and you gave me some of the things that you wanted to talk about, you put in there what is resilience, and I recorded one of our solo podcasts actually this weekend on that topic of resilience. So, you know, I'm interested to see what you say because I have a feeling we're aligned, even though I'm not a big fan of resilience. So I'll let you answer your own question: What is resilience?
Cedric Bertelli:
Well, thank you for asking me my own question that is appreciated. For me, my model in resilience comes from a man from France called Boris Cironik. Boris Cironik is a psychiatric neuroscientist who is now in his 90s, I believe, and is the first one who brought the topic of resilience in in our field here, and for me, resilience is not a quality, right? Actually, resilience is not a quality. Resilience happens naturally when our environment is loving, supportive, and safe. So when we tell somebody, "You've got to be resilient. Be more resilient. Look at her; she's resilient. Look at him; this town is resilient. It's a total nonsense. You cannot be resilient. Resilience happens when you're surrounded by love. When you're surrounded by by safety, it happens naturally. The first time that resilience, the word resilience was used was in farming. Actually, that's not true. It was in in metallurgy, but it became popular in farming. We say a ground, a soil is resilient after a fire, for example, that destroy the soil, or after intense farming, the soil become resilient when you let it be, when life goes back by itself, the worms come back, everything come back, and then something new can come. This is what resilience is. I get very upset when people come to see me and say, "Oh, I'm not resilient enough.” Might that you know? That doesn't mean anything. If you if you don't feel resilience, it's because your environment do not allow you this natural regeneration, and that's what I mean by resilience.
Alyssa:
I love it. So so we are aligned, but in a very different way because I didn't think of it the way you did. I might have to redo my podcast a little bit, but I love I love that because it it makes so much sense. And my my claim is, you know, when people say be more resilient, like you said, it's kind of the American way of saying let it roll off your back, right? Just don't pay attention. I'm like, that's not productive. It doesn't fix anything, and it's certainly hard to do for a lot of people, me especially. Like I, I can't let things just ignore them. Compartmentalize them. Can never say that word. You know, just let it roll off your. No, no, I want to deal with this. So the for me, resilience is that situation sucks, and I'm going to do this about it. Like that's resilience to me, right? And so the resolution part of all the work that you do is certainly where I was like, yes, you know, I think it's not about just ignoring what's happening. It's doing something about it. I have the same pet peeve when people give a symptom a name, right? I have imposter syndrome. I'm like, yeah. Well, what are you going to do about it then?
Cedric Bertelli:
That's right.
Alyssa:
So I love what you're saying. I could talk to you forever, but here's the thing: we're going to take a really quick break because we talked a little bit about some of the symptoms, but I kind of want to come back with you and say, okay, somebody's listening to this, and they're like, "I have something that I need to fix. That's a recurring rumination, debilitating emotion. What is something they can do right now, today, to deal with it? And if you can give some tips on that, that would be great. All right. So we're going to be right back with my new best friend, Cedric.
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Alyssa:
All right, I hope you're as excited as I am to hear some of these tips because I have so many people I want to give them to you, Cedric. But like somebody who's at least conscious that there's something that's happening in their life that is not working well for them, what is something they can do right now?
Cedric Bertelli:
So I'm going to tell you exactly how to resolve an emotional difficulty, because it's not a secret. It's not complicated. An emotional, and we know it neurobiologically. I will refer you to the work of Lisa Feldman Barrett out of Boston, which is close to you, I believe. Lisa Feldman Barrett from the University of Boston is-I don't know if the word is right-but the “pope” of the neuroscience of emotion right now. You know, she's-I think she's at the top with Antonio Damasio. We know how emotions are made, and I don't have to go into it. What I will say is a debilitating emotional pattern is nothing else but an outdated prediction from the brain. That's all it is. Maybe a couple of words so people understand how an emotion is built. Can I go into that? It's going to take me two seconds.
Alyssa:
Yeah.
Cedric Bertelli:
Yep. So how how does how do emotional difficulties are are born in us, few things we have to know. Number one, our brain constantly predict. This is how we stay ahead of the game. The brain constantly predict. You can see that when you have a cup of coffee before you test your cup of coffee, you know exactly the test is going to have. It's a prediction. So number one, the brain predict constantly. Number two, we know where those debilitating emotional patterns come from. They come from what we can say a traumatic event. Now, what is a traumatic event? And there is a lot of traumatic events that we live in our life, from in utero to birth, first years of lives, etc. etc. But a traumatic event is an instance that hold too much stress, physical or emotional for us to take on at the moment when we live it. Now, the traumatic event is not what create the pattern. What create the patterns are the instant of dissociation happening during the traumatic event. So basically, the stress is too much. The conscious mind, so to speak, shut down, so we don't suffer too much during this instant, and the subconscious takes over. Now, when the subconscious takes over, and the prefrontal cortex is not here to filter information, the way that the brain records information is very different. Right now, what we are aware of is about 2000 bits of information per second processed at the speed of 150 miles per hour consciously, subconsciously, your brain, my brain, has the potential to gather 400 billion bits of information per second, and to process that at the speed of 150,000 miles per hour. These are the number from the Penn University. So that means that when the prefrontal cortex is not here to filter information, the brain is completely open. Imagine during instant of dissociation a vortex outside gathering all the information possible: the smell, the taste, the colors, in a way that is absolutely non-logical, and the the brain also recording the physical sensation happening during this instant in your body. Okay, so that happens every time there is dissociation due to trauma, to a traumatic event.
Later on, when your brain find in the environment, I would say direct environment or in the life environment, one or several elements that were present during a past instead of dissociation, your brain is going to predict instantly what physical sensations you're about to feel based on what you felt during this specific event. The physical sensations are going to be generated because that interoceptions. Those physical sensation is what let us know that we feel an emotion. You know that you feel anxious because you feel sensations. You know that you feel angry because you feel sensations. Then you conceptualize it, but at the base of an emotional difficulty is always physical sensations interoception. Now, those physical sensations are nothing else but an outdated prediction. Your brain is predicting that you're about to feel those sensations. Well, when we feel anxious or angry or whatever it is, what do we do? We control it. Either way, we deny it, or we take some step to shut it down, or we act out of it. We react out of it. If I'm angry and I scream, why do I do that? Well, probably to push whatever scares me away, and also to release some of the tension I feel inside. The problem is that we never let this prediction play out until the end without any control, right? So, what is mrs. and what can people do? Well, it's quite simple. When you feel that you're having an emotion that you don't want to feel anymore because it doesn't serve you, right? It's not an intuition. It doesn't serve you. You feel that emotion as soon as you can. You're going to isolate yourself as much as you can from whatever created the emotion. If I'm having an argument with my wife. I'm not gonna stay in front of her because at this instant my wife become a danger to me unconsciously. So I have to remove myself and go to my room or whatever. So you feel an emotion. Try to remove yourself as much as you can, as quick as you can from what triggered the emotion. Then important, you gotta close your eyes. Why do you close your eyes?
Not because you're going to meditate, but it's important to close your eyes because a mammal, the first sign of fear in a mammal is we stop blinking. So it's important to be able to close your eyes and feel comfortable to close your eyes. If you don't feel comfortable to close your eyes, it's because your body doesn't feel safe. So you need to be able to close your eyes. It shows you and your body feels safe. Okay, next step, you gotta move all your attention to your physical sensations. So here it's important for people listening. You've got to move your attention to what physical sensations you're feeling in your body: tense throat, heart beating, tension in the plexus. It physical sensation, purely physical sensations. You have to pay attention to two to three sensations at once, not one and the other. No, you've got to overwhelm your cognitive with sensations. You've got to feel two to three sensations at once. Now you're really in touch with your emotions because usually you don't know what you feel inside. You act, you control, you manage. No, inside you feel in the flesh two to three sensations at once. Then comes the difficult part. Most of the time, those sensations are going to be uncomfortable. So what do you do? You breathe, you stretch, you talk to yourself. No, none of this. You've got to keep your attention sharp in feeling what's going on in the flesh, in the body, those physical sensations are going to change. It's normal. Remember, it is a prediction. Those sensations are going to change. It's going to move places. They might intensify. You do nothing. It is not dangerous. Those physical sensations, you feel them in your life anyway. You just ignore them or you mute them. You feel those physical sensations as they change in your body. No breathing, no stretching, no self-talking. Your job is to feel. Feeling is an action. Those sensations are going to change in between two and 90 seconds. Never more. An emotion never lasts longer than 90 seconds in the brain.
Alyssa:
Amazing. Yeah.
Cedric Bertelli:
So now, if you can just feel without acting on your environment or on your own flesh, for as long as a prediction is playing out in your body. It will never last longer than 90 seconds. At the end of the prediction, your brain is anticipating for you to be hit by some kind of danger, like it happened during a specific traumatic event. Nothing will happen to you at the end of the prediction. From that very instant, this prediction will be updated. That means that this emotion will never come back in your life again.
Alyssa:
Ever? Or do you have to do that multiple times?
Cedric Bertelli:
Ever.
Alyssa:
Ever. Wow. This is how you update prediction. I can't wait to try this.
Cedric Bertelli:
When I say can't wait, I don't want to be traumatized, but I, I, we all have. So yes, and you're not going to be traumatized. It can be a frustration. It can be frustrated with your, I don't know, your dog. It can be on the car. It's so you never start with a trauma. You start with something in your life currently that you know is creating thing, and there is no memory, right? You're not going to be put back into a mirror. No, no, you feel the emotion today. Doesn't matter why you just know you don't you feel in a funk often say you feel in a funk okay boom close your eyes where do you feel that what make you say that you get into the flesh and you feel as long as the prediction is playing out without interfering with the prediction and without what the word distracting yourself if you distract yourself it's also a way to control,
Alyssa:
Right? So, so you basically you're taking control of that response and saying, no, this is the outcome that I'm going to have. It's not going to be the outcome that I used to have. That's amazing, and it's it's so logical, but it's so brilliant on so many levels.
Cedric Bertelli:
So you immerse yourself in the prediction, and it's uh it's not easy to do because it's counterintuitive, right? For 40-50, years, you've learned to shut it down, so you can shut it down, or just be be resilient, deal with it. That's right. Deal with it in like you know, too bad for you, right? Like that's the that's right.
Alyssa:
Doesn't have to be, but you're reprogramming the brain in that way that is so powerful and so quick. And wow, can't wait to. So here's the thing: we ran very long on this podcast, but I wanted to because you know, amazing. Thank you for sharing that, and I can't wait. Yeah, literally, and we're gonna have you on again because you and I are definitely gonna jam on more of this. But two things I need to ask you before we end today's podcast, so first and foremost, we've read the same books. I read that book on how emotions are made three times because it's juicy. I love it. I actually teach at the University of Pennsylvania with all those neuroscientists, and they're amazing. So we have to do more on this together. But how do people find you? What's the easiest way to get in touch with you if folks want to come to the EMRES in person. How do they do that?
Cedric Bertelli:
So just go to emotionalhealthinstitute.org or mres.com. Go to the same place, the website, and you have all the information there.
Alyssa:
Fantastic. So thank you. I'm going to say it in like as many languages as I can. You know, multigrazzi. merci beaucoup à mil foi? I mean, like come on, obragada. I can do that too. Thank you, thank you for sharing. Thank you for doing the work you did and sharing all the history of how you got here too, because that was really personally interesting to me too. So, Cedric, really appreciate you. Thank you so much.
Cedric Bertelli:
Thank you, Alyssa. Thank you very much.
Alyssa:
Before we totally wrap up, I want to let you know that full transcripts and show notes for this and other Real Confidence episodes can be found on www.AmericanConfidenceInstitute.com/podcast. I also want to remind you once again that the best way to get confidence is to give it to others, and you can do it just by liking and sharing this episode on your preferred podcast and social media channels. You can even give me some confidence by noting topics you'd like me to consider for the future. So for now, this is Alyssa Dver. Thank you for helping to bring more confidence to the world.
Master editing done by Ben Weinstein with original music performed and composed by Jeff Mitchell. Real Confidence is a production of American Confidence Institute. All rights reserved.
